tabbed browsing - worst policy

DizzyWeb · Post by **DizzyWeb** » December 18th, 2003, 2:30 am

Why is everybody complaining so much that Single window mode isn't implemented yet?
All those complaints, "Without it I cannot convert my friends", etc... Why? We're talking about 0.9, not about 1.0.
Firebird is still growing, ofcourse it's not complete yet.

johnleemk · Post by **johnleemk** » December 18th, 2003, 5:16 am

Actually, we're talking about 0.8.

And remember to look at the Roadmap, guys - 0.8 is nothing to panic over. 0.12 will be the last pre-1.0 release for Windows and Linux, and 0.13 will be the last one for the Mac, before 1.0.

IGAU · Post by **IGAU** » December 18th, 2003, 5:29 am

willll wrote:When Single Window Mode is implemented, it should not apply to Javascript windows, at least by default. This will distort pages, be confusing to many, not to mention the fact that the current implenatation doesn't even work properly.

I agree with this comment. I also agree that at least some functions from TBE/TBP should be included in the core at some stage, whenever that happens to be. As long as people keep updating their extensions, I dont see the immediate panic or the need to flee for other browsers.

nirvana · Post by **nirvana** » December 18th, 2003, 6:49 am

johnleemk wrote:Only thing is there are other people as well who don't even want tabs, so this is why I'm not too interested in listening(not that I won't listen)to anyone who insists on the inclusion of TBE in the core.

why don't you look go to http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/ and look at the very first feature listed on the page. tabbed browsing is the premier attraction, along with popup blocking.

to ignore it is to ignore the most essential functionality of the browser.

johnleemk · Post by **johnleemk** » December 18th, 2003, 7:28 am

why don't you look go to http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/ and look at the very first feature listed on the page. tabbed browsing is the premier attraction, along with popup blocking.

to ignore it is to ignore the most essential functionality of the browser.

You sound like you're grasping for straws.

Resorting to hidden meanings shows there's little else to say. I'm not disputing tabs are an important feature - what I'm disputing is the need for TBE/TBP to enter the core immediately. Again, TBP is a much better implementation of it than TBE. However, I have a sad feeling that when this happens, Firebird General will be filled with irate ex-IE users complaining about tabs. I think it is much better to have TBP in the core, but have it disabled by default. Remember, the users of MyIE2, Avant Browser, Opera and Mozilla are in the minority - most people use plain vanilla IE. Stop being so self-centred.

Gort · Post by **Gort** » December 18th, 2003, 7:53 am

Not sure if it's right to say he's grasping at straws. The first selling point on the site is tabbed browsing, so it's easy to see why some would be disappointed by such claims, even if they are technically true.

However, I do agree with you that it should be TBP and not TBE that should be the one included in the core. TBE is way too bloated and can remain an extension by itself (or split up in parts), while TBP is small and does exactly what you'd mainly want with tabbed browsing: open links within or in new tabs. Also, I do agree that open links in tabs should be set to off by default. Still, we're still some way from 1.0 before this is all implemented or not, so the call for patience is right.

As for the vanilla IE argument: maybe they need something new and different to pull them this way. Vanilla is so plain.

nirvana · Post by **nirvana** » December 18th, 2003, 8:43 am

Gort wrote:Not sure if it's right to say he's grasping at straws. The first selling point on the site is tabbed browsing, so it's easy to see why some would be disappointed by such claims, even if they are technically true.

However, I do agree with you that it should be TBP and not TBE that should be the one included in the core. TBE is way too bloated and can remain an extension by itself (or split up in parts), while TBP is small and does exactly what you'd mainly want with tabbed browsing: open links within or in new tabs. Also, I do agree that open links in tabs should be set to off by default. Still, we're still some way from 1.0 before this is all implemented or not, so the call for patience is right.

As for the vanilla IE argument: maybe they need something new and different to pull them this way. Vanilla is so plain.

it definitely is important to be patient. im not sure if i communicated something well enough in my earlier post (the first one in this discussion). what i meant to say is, i would be ABSOLUTELY patient, as i respect/understand that the developers do this for free, and may have busy lives with all kinds of other things.... the only thing is, i do see development, but it seems to me to be in areas that are silly. that's why i brought up the download manager. so what i am saying is, if indeed development is going to go on, i dearly hope that it is going to be focused in the right directions -- because i want to see the program be the absolute best possible. if i didn't like it i wouldn't care enough to post about these types of things

as a policy, features should be thoroughly developed (tabbed browsing taken to a point where it would not generate tons of pleas for something like single mode) before the introduction of additional features (that will introduce tons of new bugs and swamp bugzilla, making progress in some areas feel impossible). then again, i'm not a developer, so i may not have the best point of view to judge this sort of thing.

My Left Hand · Post by **My Left Hand** » December 18th, 2003, 9:43 am

holy crap, i didn't know other people wanted the function this badly.

i've gotten so used to right clicking and then clicking on "open link in new tab" i never thought it was an issue.
though now you've all mentioned it, i'd love to see it implemented

cheryl52h · Post by **cheryl52h** » December 18th, 2003, 11:09 am

navegante wrote:One of the essential features of Firebird for me is tabbed browsing. For several times I’ve posted in this Forum for the importance tabbed browsing, and how the ability of open a new tab instead of a new window (as in Opera) should be a main feature, or at least an option.

For my regret many people defended that the ability of replacing new windows by new tabs should be a extension issue. That is a very dumb policy, as i noticed that if the browser evolves, is not certain that the extensions will work on new builds.

Today when I tried the 20031016 build the extension that I was using didn´t work (Tabbrowser Preferences), and my favorite (Tabbrowser Extensions by Shimoda Hiroshi) crashs the browser at start since the beginning of December. Now i don´t know how to use this browser without those anoying windows keep poping up.

It´s not important for the average user that the Firebird is some 15 ms faster that IE when open a page, when it doesn’t work as it should, like loading new skins and extensions, or having a true tabbed browsing options -> open new windows in a new tab (that was an option in 0.4 if I´m not mistaken) .

As I know Firebird is reaching 0.8, and I’m sad that the latest build don’t work with any skin, and the some crucial extensions like those don’t work at all. I think Firebird is losing its qualities, and I wouldn’t launch a 0.8 release that as so less features and functionalities compared with 0.7 or 0.6.

If that happens I’ll be very sad, but I will go back to Opera after one year of intense passion with the Firebird (good old Phoenix), because I will not believe that there is a future on this beloved browser.

I also like Fbird very much except for the Tabs issue.

You might not like the version but I found I can get what I want from Black Diamond version 0.3.

Go to Firebird General Forum and go to topics and the third from the bottom and check it out.

This way we stay with the browser and get the best of both worlds.

Let me know if it works for you.

johnleemk · Post by **johnleemk** » December 19th, 2003, 12:14 am

Or you could just install TBE or TBP.

Btw, you can ctrl+click on a link, and it will open in a new tab, or if you have a mousewheel/third mouse button, use that to click on the link.

sensemann · Post by **sensemann** » December 19th, 2003, 1:10 am

navegante wrote:Well have u ever tried a skin? I belive that is a skin is available to a program in its options, many users will try it. And there´s a lot of old skins that will mess up the browser to a point of scaring out a new user testing a new browser (like the desaperence of horizontal scrooler).

For those reasons and more, i don´t belive that 0.8 will be a sucess...

dude, what do you expect? Should the devs stop working just because some skin developers don't update their skins to the latest needs? it's a problem of firebird help or the designers to mark the skins with the version they're supporting. don't complain about such problems if you're using <u>nightlies</u> of a beta product!

navegante · Post by **navegante** » December 19th, 2003, 2:18 am

sensemann wrote:dude, what do you expect? Should the devs stop working just because some skin developers don't update their skins to the latest needs? it's a problem of firebird help or the designers to mark the skins with the version they're supporting. don't complain about such problems if you're using <u>nightlies</u> of a beta product!

I´m not complaining about 0.8 brach. All i´m saying is that textualazer should be more transparent for the averange user when 0.8 is launch and only expose skins and extensions that will work, and not one year old third party skins and extension that mess up the browser.

johnleemk · Post by **johnleemk** » December 19th, 2003, 6:23 am

I´m not complaining about 0.8 brach. All i´m saying is that textualazer should be more transparent for the averange user when 0.8 is launch and only expose skins and extensions that will work, and not one year old third party skins and extension that mess up the browser.

Then bring it up with David Tenser. Mozilla.org does not maintain Mozilla Firebird Help. And again, I think extension/theme devs are just waiting for 0.8 final to fix their products. That is all.

d_ralphie · Post by **d_ralphie** » December 19th, 2003, 3:35 pm

navegante and others are complaining about a browser which is work in progress. theonekea even wants to update the pages for an unreleased version.

come on guys, fb is still in development and you can't do everything at the same time. what's important to you might not be important to someone else. it's available as extensions right now anyway so why not focus on something else?

i don't get it. why is it so hard to understand that firebird is work in progress and that it'll settle down when it reaches 1.0?

this thread is unreasonable and redundant. it is basically noise with unreasonable requests and complaints.

it is a preview for gods sake.

m0053 · Post by **m0053** » December 19th, 2003, 4:08 pm

"It´s not important for the average user that the Firebird is some 15 ms faster that IE when open a page"

Yes it is. And even if it is not the biggest thing in the world to the average user, power users and speed hogs will not settle for anything less than the superpower.

tabbed browsing - worst policy

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Re: tabbed browsing - worst policy