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Ctrl-Q for exit?

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daihard
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Post Posted November 18th, 2002, 5:21 pm

djst wrote:Start using Ctrl+W for a while, and I'm sure you'll hit Ctrl+Q a few times.


Actually, I've been using "ctrl + W" to close tabs for quite some time. As I wrote in another response, I have so far never confused "ctrl + Q" and "ctrl + W". I wonder how it can be easy for some people to accidentally hit "ctrl + Q" instead of "ctrl + W". Which fingers do you use to press those shortcuts?

leoz

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Post Posted November 18th, 2002, 8:20 pm

daihard wrote:
djst wrote:Start using Ctrl+W for a while, and I'm sure you'll hit Ctrl+Q a few times.


Actually, I've been using "ctrl + W" to close tabs for quite some time. As I wrote in another response, I have so far never confused "ctrl + Q" and "ctrl + W". I wonder how it can be easy for some people to accidentally hit "ctrl + Q" instead of "ctrl + W". Which fingers do you use to press those shortcuts?


I use left pinky for ctrl and left middle finger for W. I normally don't miss, but the few times it happened were extremely traumatic.

daihard
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Post Posted November 18th, 2002, 8:31 pm

leoz wrote:I use left pinky for ctrl and left middle finger for W. I normally don't miss, but the few times it happened were extremely traumatic.


That's how I press 'ctrl + W', too. Since my Ctrl key is very small (I use a standard U.S. 105-key keyboard), I'd have to twist my hand a bit in order for my middle finger to hit 'Q' when my pinky holds the Ctrl key. Well it could be that you have a lot more flexible hand than mine. :)

leoz

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Post Posted November 18th, 2002, 8:41 pm

daihard wrote:
leoz wrote:I use left pinky for ctrl and left middle finger for W. I normally don't miss, but the few times it happened were extremely traumatic.


That's how I press 'ctrl + W', too. Since my Ctrl key is very small (I use a standard U.S. 105-key keyboard), I'd have to twist my hand a bit in order for my middle finger to hit 'Q' when my pinky holds the Ctrl key. Well it could be that you have a lot more flexible hand than mine. :)


I do use the ergonomic "natural" keyboard, so the angles are different I guess.

nkurz
 
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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 12:45 am

thumperward wrote:c) Please stop putting an apostrophe in "OSs". "My personal CPU" can at least cope with primary school grammar.


While many grammar authorities agree with you, many do not. I thought at first it might be a British/American difference, but as I searched I found both sides of the argument on both sides. Here's a fairly authoritative British link for you:

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/ ... ling/pizza

Which isn't to say you shouldn't crusade against OS's you don't like.
Only that things might not be as clear as they might otherwise seem.

:)

--nate

ps. If I keep using Phoenix, I'll patch it to use Alt-Q, but with a confirmation window. While I don't think I've ever hit it by mistake when aiming for Alt-W, my emacs trained fingers tend it hit it automatically whenever my brains wants textboxes to reformat. But yes, I use Alt-Q intentionally very often.

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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 7:55 am

The lack of C-q is the very reason I'm still using mozilla rather than phoenix. It IS the standard way to exit gui progrmas under linux.

djst
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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 8:04 am

noahdiku wrote:The lack of C-q is the very reason I'm still using mozilla rather than phoenix.


That is just too much. :)
I mean listen to yourself. You're not using a program because you can't shut it down completely by pressing Ctrl+Q? That's about as picky as one can get.

leoz

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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 9:29 am

OK, I figured out why I used to occasionally hit ctrl-Q instead of ctrl-W - basically, when I am typing, I hit the W key with the middle finger, but when I am browsing and mostly using the mouse (to open links), my left hand just lays on the keyboard (and the ctrl key) lazily and I hit the W button with the index finger - if my brain misfires and I push with my middle finger, it hits the Q :).

Noone cares of course, but I think this explains why it is a problem for me.

daihard
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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 10:14 am

leoz wrote:OK, I figured out why I used to occasionally hit ctrl-Q instead of ctrl-W - basically, when I am typing, I hit the W key with the middle finger, but when I am browsing and mostly using the mouse (to open links), my left hand just lays on the keyboard (and the ctrl key) lazily and I hit the W button with the index finger - if my brain misfires and I push with my middle finger, it hits the Q :).

Thanks for the self analysis. :) I just looked at the way I type myself, and found that I use my pinky for 'A' and 'Z' but ring finger for 'Q'. Which means I use my ring finger for both 'W' and 'Q'... well it should be okay because AFAIK no English word has those two letters consecutively.

On a separate note... while I still wish I was able to use 'ctrl + Q' to quit Phoenix, the lack of the feature by no means stops me from using Phoenix. :)

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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 11:20 am

nkurz wrote:While many grammar authorities agree with you, many do not. I thought at first it might be a British/American difference, but as I searched I found both sides of the argument on both sides. Here's a fairly authoritative British link for you:

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/ ... ling/pizza


That contradicts itself in the two most important areas of said grammar rule (Why is CDs correct but not OSs?), so I'm given to ignoring it. If the acronym being pluralised is in capitals (as it should be) then there should never be an apostrophe. There's a campaign devoted to getting this out to people, I'm sure Google would turn it up... :)

- Chris

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Post Posted November 19th, 2002, 2:16 pm

While many grammar authorities agree with you, many do not. I thought at first it might be a British/American difference, but as I searched I found both sides of the argument on both sides. Here's a fairly authoritative British link for you:

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/ ... ling/pizza

:)
--------------------------------------------
Way off topic, but some people hiss when they hear of other OSs (the OS for them is for operating system) others buzz at the thought of other OS's (here OS is standalone terminology which means operating system) :)

---------------------------------------------
ps. If I keep using Phoenix, I'll patch it to use Alt-Q, but with a confirmation window. While I don't think I've ever hit it by mistake when aiming for Alt-W, my emacs trained fingers tend it hit it automatically whenever my brains wants textboxes to reformat. But yes, I use Alt-Q intentionally very often.[/quote]
---------------------------------------------

The use of Alt-Q was standard for Netscape 4.7 and before on linux/unix. The switch was made perhaps because it was standard for all other OS's (and besides, several other applications also had it for windows as well as linux/unix). I for one would be fine with Alt-Q as the shortcut, though in the interests of standardization, Ctrl-Q would be more appropriate.

The use of Alt-F and then whatever is a very disgusting shortcut in my opinion. This sort of keybinding exists across programs (to highlight the particular field) and comes from windows applications, but much of it seems to be haphazard. I don't however see it going away and in the interests of standardization has also to be kept. I would not like to use it. For one thing, Alt-F is much harder to get to -- first the F is in the middle, and has to be searched, and then there is the extra effort of changing gears and moving in reverse to get that Q. That is the part that is most wasteful in my opinion.

All in all, an user-option would be most appropriate: if not a standardized approach which builds on good computer practices.

Stefan

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Post Posted November 20th, 2002, 2:48 am

noahdiku wrote:The lack of C-q is the very reason I'm still using mozilla rather than phoenix.


NP, you are alowed to use any browser you like :)

Prognathous
 
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Post Posted November 26th, 2002, 5:00 pm

Bug #52821: "too easy to hit ctrl-q instead of ctrl-w"
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52821

Here's a favorite quote from the discussion of this bug, comment #138 (Jeremy M. Dolan):

> Alt f x is much easier to hit, more discoverable, and backwards compatible.
> I don't see anyone WHO has a problem with this for UNIX and Windows.
> Can't we check that in and let Mac continue to rot and have dataloss,
> if that's the way they want it?

Ctrl+Q is simply non standard on Windows. Period.
Don't believe me? check out the following apps:
IE6, Explorer, Word, Excel, Access, Calc, Notepad, Paint and Wordpad
By the way, Alt+FX works on all of them, talk about standards...

Prog.

daihard
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Post Posted November 26th, 2002, 6:39 pm

Prognathous wrote:Ctrl+Q is simply non standard on Windows. Period.
Don't believe me? check out the following apps:
IE6, Explorer, Word, Excel, Access, Calc, Notepad, Paint and Wordpad
By the way, Alt+FX works on all of them, talk about standards...

Prog.

For your information, 'alt + F + x' is not a standard way of existing applications with KDE. Most KDE apps have 'alt + F + Q' instead. Either way, it's more cumbersome than two-key shortcuts like 'ctrl + Q', which BTW is the standard way to quit KDE apps. No worries, I've tweaked browser.xul and added 'ctrl + Q' so Phoenix behaves the same way other KDE apps do. :)

Dai

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Post Posted November 27th, 2002, 10:32 pm

aarem wrote:q and w are next to each other on the keyboard, but that is true about so many letters.....


not on my Dvorak keyboard :-)
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