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We need more themers.

Discuss application theming and theme development.
aconbere

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Post Posted November 30th, 2004, 11:50 pm

dcNate in it's most basic form (simply replacing the images) yes, theming can be that easy. But most themers take the oportunity to also change the colors of the toolbars, change the way things act and move, change the scollbars etc, to better mesh the style with the icons, and to give the theme a unified feel.

Anders

Scarrow

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 3:59 am

Hey Lynch, I managed a <em>raw</em> update of your <ins>Coffeecup</ins> theme.

I mean <em>raw</em>, as in, working and looking pretty good in FF 1.0, but I have yet to go over any missing icons, potentially unpleasant quirks, etc.

Let me know where I can upload it so you can comb through it in order to make any changes/additions you see fit.

- Scarrow

Dunderklumpen
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 4:57 am

Yes, we do but themes suddently becoming unusable due to updates - is one problem.
Users simply having to tell the rest of the world that they do not like a specific theme - another.

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 10:41 am

Scarrow wrote:Hey Lynch, I managed a <em>raw</em> update of your <ins>Coffeecup</ins> theme.

I mean <em>raw</em>, as in, working and looking pretty good in FF 1.0, but I have yet to go over any missing icons, potentially unpleasant quirks, etc.

Let me know where I can upload it so you can comb through it in order to make any changes/additions you see fit.

- Scarrow


lol this is getting freaky. First Crystal, now Coffeecup? I returned an email request last night. Someone wanting Coffeecup updated. I told him that I will be working on it next. You can send it to my email - and thank you! . lynchknot at lynchknot.com

lucx
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 10:49 am

lynchknot wrote:...rather than throwing some icons in a folder. If it's easy, there is not much reward/satisfaction. I have yet to see an Opera theme that I like..


The difficulty of creating a theme has no relevance to its quality. Whether lynchknot likes an Opera theme is no indication of it's character. More time spent does not make a theme more legitimate.

3DD
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 10:59 am

xN8x wrote:When I started theming, all I knew was HTML and the basic layout and attributes of CSS. Now, I still only know HTML, the basic layout and attributes of CSS ( maybe a little more CSS), and a tiny amount of XUL attributes (hbox, vbox, w/e) and I made 3 themes. The best way to learn is to spend time on these forums and to decompile a theme and look at it's set up and interworkings. At first, I thought theming would be impossible, only the computer elite could do it, but I stumbled my way through making one and it started to get easier.

I am interested in creating a new theme, but there are only some general documentations around on the subject. It would be great if there is some kind of Theme Development Guide available to make the learning process shorter.

Sailfish
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 11:08 am

lucx wrote:The difficulty of creating a theme has no relevance to its quality. Whether lynchknot likes an Opera theme is no indication of it's character. More time spent does not make a theme more legitimate.

Not more legitimate but certainly more awe-inspiring. In the right hands, a theme on Firefox renders like frescoes in the Sistine Chapel; whereas, with the same hands, a theme for non-xul browsers renders like territorial graffiti splashed on blighted walls.

Okay, okay ... maybe I'm being a bit too dramatic ... I'm just saying.

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 11:10 am

lucx wrote:
lynchknot wrote:...rather than throwing some icons in a folder. If it's easy, there is not much reward/satisfaction. I have yet to see an Opera theme that I like..


The difficulty of creating a theme has no relevance to its quality. Whether lynchknot likes an Opera theme is no indication of it's character. More time spent does not make a theme more legitimate.


I disagree to an extent (more time spent). The more one spends in creating - to bring out the best and unique qualities (maybe with a little feedback from community as it develops) - the better I appreciate it - as I can tell what was required for the outcome - such as your theme, "Charamel" . Though it's not my favorite color, it is an awesome theme.

As far a degree of difficulty goes, it requires a higher degree fo determination and dedication to achieve the goal - and it shows in the theme's unique character (difficulty discourages those without the "drive" - sad maybe but true in some cases). I'm sure you can recognize when a theme has been "slopped" together - without much thought to create something truly different from the rest.

However, you misunderstood my statement (my fault). There should have been a break between the two statements - the later having nothing to do with the former.
In the first sentence, I talk about personal satisfaction and reward in the challenge. The second is just a statement that I have not come across an Opera theme that appeals to me.

Sailfish, that was classic. :) hehe, we should start a "classic quotes" thread because there are so many of them in this community.
Last edited by lynchknot on December 1st, 2004, 12:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Eyes-Only

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 11:32 am

Hmm... I'm truly enjoying the interplay here and the thoughts. But I think that I'd rather have lucx critique one of my K-Meleon themes---seeing that those are even easier to throw together than an Opera theme. ;) hehe!

I love your writing style lucx! Très bien magnifique sans doute mon ami! Bravo! :)

I would like to say though that even with a K-Meleon theme being the easiest to make, that doesn't mean that I, too, didn't pour a labour of love and a piece of my soul into it as I was making it. While it's true that I didn't make a lot of the icons (some but nowhere near all as they are mostly ports) great care was taken in cleaning them up, clearing them, placements, touch ups, etc. I am, after all, an artist in real life (former Ukiyo-e artist) whose prints have sold on the world market for... well... you don't want to know as that would be bragging and not for this forum. So I placed the same care into my K-Meleon. But I themed for that precisely because due to brain injury I could never understand all that .css and my grey matter sees it and shuts down. :(

I wished it wouldn't shut down, believe me! Being disabled I have a lot of free time on my hands, especially as I get closer to my destiny. I see a list such as lynchknot has and the thought of being able to help one of the people I admire most makes me itch and yearn to help! And there's the crux of the problem---that I can't. I can only sit back, enjoy your works, realise the labour of love that you've poured into your themes, admire the exquisite artworks---for they ARE works of art in every sense of the word!---and be thankful for the few great themers that we have. Mozilla.org should count their blessings and make it easier for you folks and though they can't monetarily reimburse you it's too bad they couldn't give you some sort of a pat on the back now and then and make your job a little easier (maybe breaking things less would help?).

Okie, I've rambled enough. Man! I've loved the thoughts on this thread! Keep it up people! :D

Amicalement / In Friendship,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
http://eyesonly.no-ip.info/jimmymac/
--
"We never know just how much a kind word, or a gesture, will lift the spirits of a person in need and heal them." KDpup-484, LucidPup-511, SM2+/FX4+/TB31+

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 11:47 am

Eyes-Only - as I stated. The ease of which theme creation is possible is not the point I was trying to convey (but it is). The difficulty is, like you said, "pour a labour of love and a piece of my soul into it".

However, some do toss icons and maybe a background in, zip it up and call it done (or in my experience, steal another's work) - because of the ease in which it's possible.

lol - I sound contradictory in reviewing my posts. I hope you all know what i'm trying to say - it's still too early in the morning - yeah, that's it - too early. :)

In no way do I discount your work eyes only - as I know that you are a true artist.

Eyes-Only

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 3:08 pm

lynchknot wrote:

"In no way do I discount your work eyes only - as I know that you are a true artist."


PHEW! you make me blush lynchknot! :oops: All the same, I'm glad that you said that though and I thank you for it my friend. I'd really hate to have to place a recall on that piece of art I made for you :P LOL!!!

*Eyes-Only falls over and out of his wheelchair from laughing so hard!*

Actually, it may be early in the morning where you are, but I do understand what you're trying to say. You see it in Opera themes, in K-Meleon themes, in Avant and Maxthon themes, and sadly enough despite the fact that they're so hard to theme for, Firefox, T-Bird and Mozilla themes as well, people who haven't taken the time and effort to really put their ALL into it but have just thrown in a few icons and said, "Oh wow! I made this spanky new theme!..."

I'm surprised though that no one has addressed the issue I stated about Mozilla.org being more thankful towards its themers. After all, they not only use extensions as a big selling point for Firefox, but seems so they use the fact that you can change the look of it with themes as well as another really big selling point. And yet what is their track record with said themers? Forever breaking something and never saying anything (or so it used to be anyway) until the last moment if at all? Never a "thank you" that I know of (of course I'm not privy to behind the scenes news either)? Sometimes just a "Thank you guys & gals! We couldn't have done it without you!" is nice as acknowledgement itself is nice.

I'd hate to think of what would happen if Mozilla.org lost all of its free labour in the form of the themers. Winstripe is a nice theme. But I can't imagine how few uninspired themes they'd have if they had to pay to have a full-fledged graphic arts department doing what they're getting now for free.

I dunno... maybe I'm just talking to hear myself talk. It's late in the day and I'm tired...

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"
http://eyesonly.no-ip.info/jimmymac/
--
"We never know just how much a kind word, or a gesture, will lift the spirits of a person in need and heal them." KDpup-484, LucidPup-511, SM2+/FX4+/TB31+

xN8x

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 3:36 pm

I agree with you eyes only. Themers could use some credit. But then again, I do it whether I get a "thank-you" or not. I do it for the challenge, the puzzling and sometimes perturbing rencontres with obstacles, and the rewarding feeling of hearing what people thought of the fruit of my labor. I suppose that I cannot speak too zealously on the subject, seeing as how I am the most amateur of themers, so I'll end this reply now.
Firefox is the best browser known to mankind. 2 out of 3 geeks agree. <br>
<a href="http://nate.teamstortz.com/index.html">Nate's Corner of the Web</a>
<br>
Check out my site, I made sure it was firefox compatible the easiest way I knew how; I developed and tested it using firefox. :)

lynchknot
 
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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 4:45 pm

Themers are, sadly, at the low end of the "totem pole" - "Coders" seem unable to appreciate the importance of grapics (maybe i'm wrong) - I mean, look at Luna and IE icons - yuk! Apple, on the other hand, places great importance on the visual. (but that's all I like about mac) Their icons are the most beautiful on the net.

First impression is most important, they say. It is graphics that will convey initial message of quality in an app - function follows (mind you, I said "initial")

As far as thanking goes - look at update. They will not even mention other sites with themes. You know what goes through my mind when I think of that? I'm left to draw my own conclusions as I never got a real response in that thead. I suppose my last statement I left in THIS THREAD holds true for them as well. (the only conclusion that I can draw)



**edit - hehe, yeah I know = "you want a little whine with that lynchknot?: /*the violin continues*/
Last edited by lynchknot on December 1st, 2004, 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blatz

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 4:56 pm

I think i can also help you to update your skins lynch.

if you´re interested ... tell me
Firefox: Version 2.0 // Thunderbird: Version 2.0

xN8x

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Post Posted December 1st, 2004, 4:59 pm

We'll have a Lynchknot Theme Updating Squad.... the themes will be up-to-date in no time. lol.... Unless lynch isn't cool with that.
Firefox is the best browser known to mankind. 2 out of 3 geeks agree. <br>
<a href="http://nate.teamstortz.com/index.html">Nate's Corner of the Web</a>
<br>
Check out my site, I made sure it was firefox compatible the easiest way I knew how; I developed and tested it using firefox. :)

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