washed out black text in Fx - not in Windows or apps

[phkhgh]

Using same named font(s) in Windows - Vista -in OOo Writer, Wordpad, etc., the text is nice & black. In Fx 15, using same font, it's noticeably more "faded" - enough that it's bothersome. Obviously, my system settings are OK, or text, contrast, etc., in Wordpad, other apps would look off.

Font color in about:config is just black (#000000). No reason I can see that same named font would look far less black in Fx. But it does.
What all could be affecting font color "depth" in Fx? I have UNchecked, "allow pages to use their own fonts." All monitor settings are the same for Fx as any other app, so that can't be it.

Tried using Fx default theme - no change. I'd say text (for same named font) is ~ 20 - 30% darker in apps - Wordpad, OOo Writer - even Notepad, than Fx.
In other apps, it's jet black - as should be. If Fx, a dark gray - no matter background color (like white).

Thanks.

[Frank Lion]

Firefox menu > Tools > Options > Advanced > General and untick 'Use Hardware Acceleration when...'. Then restart Firefox.

[phkhgh]

Thanks. At least that was fast, to see it made no difference. I did restart Fx, though usually not necessary for about:config color changes.
Same as before, text isn't even close to being as dark as any of above mentioned apps. Doesn't matter if it's cheap, no - options Wordpad or OOo Writer. Can anyone confirm that?

Actually, the background on this reply box is white & backgrounds on my other apps are kinda parchment. Text is still way darker on them w/ the diff screens side by side.
Has to be something internal to Fx, somewhere. It's also the way text on web pages display (assuming most are pure black).

Sounds strange, but could Fx have its own setting for contrast or color rendition? Black is black, I want my text display back. It's Gray, it's gray, since it went away oh oh.

[patrickjdempsey]

You might want to try to play with your ClearType settings. http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cle ... /tune.aspx

[phkhgh]

That "tuner" doesn't work in Fx in Vista. Says you can get a copy of the tuner. BUT... I doubt any clear type tuning will affect ONLY one prgm. All other apps are fine. Clear type is on - by default.

Doing a search, many posts about text graying in Fx; suggest "graying" of text is a Firefox problem. Maybe web pages' CSS related, some said. Dunno.
If I uncheck "allow pages to use their own colors," then text is very black against white background. Text is darker in IE (9) than Fx, but not as black as in word processors.

It's definitely harder for me to read than pure black text in a word processor. Does anyone else not notice that text in Fx is not nearly as black as a word processing app (if web pages are allowed to use their colors)?

[patrickjdempsey]

Did you notice *any* difference when you disabled hardware acceleration? If not, it's likely that your graphics card/drivers have been blacklisted by Firefox and are not supported... which would leave you with the GDI-rendered fonts, which do tend to be thinner and render as greyish on LCD monitors. Your "native" applications are probably all running fancy font rendering a'la DirectWrite:

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/04 ... rendering/

[phkhgh]

No, not noticeable. If I had to look that closely, there's not much difference. Why would hardware acceleration make black text gray(er)?

Drivers blacklisted? What the... I promise they never spammed anyone. If they are, then > half the computer's w/ GPU's may be black listed - mine are recent Nvidia drivers. Why would it black list them?

In the article, chart mentions DirectWrite in Fx 4+ "activated by user." But link about it at page bottom is dead. This is 1st I've heard of such an option in Fx. Do you know what Fx uses by default - now, or how to "activate DirectWrite?"

Also mentions Clear Type only works on TT fonts. I don't remember all the TT font names (apps like Word used to specify), but in Fx, it's not so much the text is ragged, as just not black. One thing that help a little, is unchecking in Options "use system colors." That doesn't seem logical - that setting looks like it applies ONLY if "allow pages to use their own colors" is UNchecked. I'm not sure to what, when or how "use system colors" applies.

Black text was darker in Win 3.1 than in Fx 15. Don't know what the default font is for Fx.
Now, if I change default font to Arial Black - it's BLACK. But, same as everything being bold. With that, on my screen, can't tell when text is actually formatted bold - no difference.

I tried several (not all), but maybe there are a few Fx fonts that are darker / slightly heavier - not as much as Arial black. Franklin Gothic Medium is definitely darker, than Times New Roman & others.

[patrickjdempsey]

DirectWrite requires Hardware Acceleration, which means that the fonts are being drawn by your graphics card. Firefox has a list of acceptable graphics cards/drivers that are the minimum requirements to run Hardware Acceleration, and thus DirectWrite. If your hardware/drivers to not meet up with the blocklist, then Hardware Acceleration will not be enabled and the fonts you get are flimsy GDI grayscale... they look especially bad on LCD's. The blocklist exists primarily because older cards/drivers to not have DirectWrite/Direct2D/Direct3D available and would probably crash pretty hard. I do know that Vista systems have dramatically lower compatible driver support than W7 systems.

I'm not sure why the article says DirectWrite is disabled in 4+. Either his information was old (from before Firefox 4.0 was released) or his specific hardware configuration has it disabled.

You are right about black text being darker in older versions of Windows... I don't know what Microsoft did to GDI fonts, but it's severely screwed up... this W2K machine renders fonts better than my non-accelerated W7 machine. Again though, some of it has to do with these darn new LCD monitors, IMO they are junk, font's look terrible no matter what you do on them. I really wish MicroSoft offered some form of non-accelerated font-smoothing that actually worked.

You can find a comprehensive guide of these issues here: viewtopic.php?t=1775755

[Frank Lion]

Doing a search, many posts about text graying in Fx; suggest "graying" of text is a Firefox problem.

What happens when you try SafeMode? http://kb.mozillazine.org/Safe_mode

[phkhgh]

Frank - will try safe mode later & report.
So far, thanks to suggestions here & stubbornness, I've found that THE font selected makes a BIG difference in DARKNESS & (depending on font) thickness / heaviness of fonts. Sometimes too big.

My guess - aside from other issues mentioned: need to experiment w/ diff fonts in Fx & also the font size & minimum font size, if default values don't suit users. Suggest noting what original values were, if doesn't work out.

Patrick - any idea how to tell if Fx has "blacklisted" video drivers (where is "the list," or...?) AND / OR - if Fx is using GDI or DirectWrite - w/ a given GPU / OS (for me, EVGA/Nvidia, Vista)? I understood in replies here, DirectWrite requires checking "use hardware acceleration..." - but at same time, a GPU / drivers may not be accepted by Fx. Any way to verify what's really happening?

Based on quick web search (some hit were yrs old) - lots of complaints about poor text rendering in Fx. I've got a true HD 1920 x 1080, IPS monitor; decent GPU w/ recent drivers & - many - fonts look pretty sad in Fx. You don't need a $300+ GPU to make screen fonts look good.

[phkhgh]

UPDATE: Experimented w/ MANY serif & sans serif fonts. Must choose serif or sans serif in "Proportional" box, for selected fonts to apply.
Side thought - would it KILL Fx to display a font SAMPLE in list of fonts? Would make it a LOT faster to go thru list. Many are only suitable for "special" use, not page of text.

Many are darker. Many are hard to read. Beauty is in eye of beholder.
I'd still like to know answers to my previous questions about how to tell what's going on in Fx - GDI vs DirectWrite; blacklisted GPU.

I'm using a 21.5 in. HD monitor. Other sizes, resolution capability will make font display different.
What has "good readability" will vary between users. Some don't like text really closely spaced (like me); others don't mind.

With darker text, can reduce monitor brightness - WAY easier on eyes.
A few I found that are darker & still good readability (easy to follow flow of text) - for me - for pages of text:
SERIF FONTS
DejaVu serif (one of best I found)
Constantia
Arimo

SANS SERIF FONTS
DejaVu Sans
Verdana

[kreemoweet]

phkhgh wrote: "I'd still like to know answers to my previous questions about how to tell what's going on in Fx - GDI vs DirectWrite; blacklisted GPU."

Type "about:support" in the location bar and enter. Look at Graphics section at bottom of page.

[phkhgh]

Thanks kmw & all.
Apparently, it recognizes my GPU, but Fx isn't finding Clear Type param. Info from about:support:

Adapter DescriptionNVIDIA GeForce GT 240
Vendor ID0x10de
Device ID0x0ca3
Adapter RAM1024
Adapter Driversnvd3dumx,nvwgf2umx,nvwgf2umx nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver Version8.17.12.8562
Driver Date10-15-2011
Direct2D Enabledtrue
DirectWrite Enabled true (7.0.6002.18592)
ClearType ParametersClearType parameters not found
WebGL RendererGoogle Inc. -- ANGLE (NVIDIA GeForce GT 240) -- OpenGL ES 2.0 (ANGLE 1.0.0.1041)
GPU Accelerated Windows1/1 Direct3D 10
AzureBackenddirect2d

Clear Type is enabled in Vista Appearances / Effects. No idea what effect Fx saying "CT parameters not found" has??
My default character encoding is Western ISO 8859-15, if makes a difference.

[patrickjdempsey]

And we are back were we started.... try adjusting your ClearType settings:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2196371
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28790/tw ... windows-7/

[phkhgh]

I think Fx reporting not finding CT parameters may be spurious. If I turn OFF clear type in Windows, text looks like crap in Fx - & most everything.
W/ CT enabled, font edges are smooth - even looking thru hand lens.
Best I can tell, the clear type adjustment only works via IE, which then MAY be applied to everything. (Could not get the online "wizard to work while in Fx).

AFAIK, clear type doesn't affect text DARKNESS, so much as smooth edges.
Followed your advice - went thru CT adj. wizard (using IE), picked "best" samples presented; saved, then went back to Fx. What were smooth font edges in Fx now aren't. Looking at font w/ OR w/o hand lens (before & after MS clear type wizard), font edges are now more ragged & "missing" a few pixels of being completely filled in.

Not good. NEVER use these "emphases," but... MF - spent hrs trying out 20 - 30 fonts, found a few that were dark & clear, now shot to hell.
Hope I CAN GET THE SETTINGS BACK, before using clear type wizard. Any idea how to reverse what the online wizard changed?
Just going back thru the online wizard - once - & clicking "use previous" did NOT change things back. Guess that ship sailed after "Saving" the 1st time.

FYI, choosing the "best" samples in CT online tweaker, also didn't result in clear text in IE in Vista. Quite possible the online wizard not designed for Vista.

As HowToGeek page says, by default, there's no "tweaking" clear type in Vista - same as I found. On or off.
They SAY, or in Vista, can, "Install Microsoft’s ClearType Tuner PowerToy for XP (which works in Vista, even if it says it doesn’t)."

I hope going back thru the online wizard or installing the CT tuner (I used it in XP) gets my display back where it was, cause now font clarity looks like crap (but, it is dark... but crappy).

No idea why, but for now - on my system, only a few fonts display darkness similar to a word processor AND have had good readability.