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Does Fx 22 nightly look too large?

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dkgo

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Post Posted March 17th, 2013, 11:50 pm

seem incompatible

malliz
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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 12:00 am

He's talking about the UI and if you had bothered to read the rest of the thread you would know that
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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 5:12 am

Fx22 with the DPI patch now affects both the UI and content which are upscaled according (supposedly) to whatever DPI you have set in Windows. I am on Medium setting which is 125% or 120 dpi.

Fx22 increases the size of the chrome portion which produces blurry buttons, icons, etc. Just look at any icon in the chrome. They are bigger and blurry. One could argue that since all these items are low rez 16x16, upscaling them 125% is bound to make them larger and blurry. Same thing for content in web pages. Lots of graphics are low rez and with the DPI patch these are all up scaled to 125%. Some web pages use higher rez graphics or perhaps are DPI aware and serve up higher rez images so they look fine. However most graphic stuff is low rez harkening back to the day when folks had low rez monitors where 96 dpi was just fine.

Before the DPI patch Fx left the chrome portion at 96 dpi which of course rendered all the 16x16 stuff just fine. Text in the chrome like menus were upscaled but text is not affected by upscaling, it always scales OK. So no blurry icons and such but they were limited to 96 dpi which is the reason they are small but clear. The 'old' Fx with it's zoom feature, which only affected content not chrome is nice in that you can manipulate web pages to increase/decrease text independently of the graphics. This is text zoom and full page zoom. I use NoSquint and set my default for web pages at 125%. This increases text to make it readable but leaves the graphics alone which insures they are clear. Of course there are times when I need to use full page zoom with the understanding that the graphics on the page, unless high rez, will be blurry.

My main criticism of the DPI patch is that it affects the chrome and can't be changed by the zoom function as can web pages. The devs have to come up with higher rez versions of all there icons, buttons, and graphics in the chrome. This would make them clear at a high OS DPI. However, they still might be larger which I don't like because that take up real estate. Think about this. Load a 16x16 icon in Paint. What you will see is the icon displayed as 16x16, not upscaled to a bigger and blurrier icon. So why can paint respect the rez of the icon but not the new Fx?? If I want to zoom the icon I use Paint's zoom feature. This is how things should work in Fx.

I've managed to make my Fx22 with the patch look like it did before the patch. I use Nosquint to set Full Page Zoom to 80% to neutralize the effects of the 125% increase in size. For the chrome portion I used a few lines of CSS code to scale down all the different icons and buttons also to 80%. So I basically have what I always had.

The patch is still in alpha and already there are problems not expected. One biggy for me is that Fx appears to now think that your monitor is larger because it's using the DPI to erroneously determine screen size. On a single monitor system I don't think this is a problem. I have a dual monitor setup so If I go into full screen mode Fx extends 1/4 of the way on my second monitor. This is like a dpi of 100% on monitor 1, 25% on monitor 2. I filed a bug on this and there are a few more related to this.

I'm willing to see how the devs handle this whole situation. I believe they are looking to have high rez chrome stuff. Web page stuff, on the other hand, is pretty much left to the web page designer. If they choose to use low rez graphics upscaling them will make them blurry.

I am told Chrome and Opera don't use the OS dpi, they do things the way 'old' Fx did. Google being on the edge you would think they would embrace using the OS dpi if it such a great thing. IE on the other hand does use the OS dpi and IMO looks slightly less crappy then the 'new' Fx. Graphics in the chrome are not as blurry but the whole chrome is way to big for my liking.

Time will tell how this will end. I hope the devs come up with the right way to handle large DPI monitors.
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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 6:29 am

streetwolf, the problem currently is that Firefox does not respect the "use Windows XP style scaling" setting. It still zooms the UI and text whether you have that checked or not. I have a 50" 1080p tv that is set to 150 dpi and Windows XP scaling is checked. Both Chrome and IE respect this setting and do not zoom everything larger. Firefox zooms no matter if this is checked or not. Someone please pass this along on Bugzilla, I don't have an account there. This would solve the problem many are having.

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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 7:28 am

StinDaWg wrote:streetwolf, the problem currently is that Firefox does not respect the "use Windows XP style scaling" setting. It still zooms the UI and text whether you have that checked or not. I have a 50" 1080p tv that is set to 150 dpi and Windows XP scaling is checked. Both Chrome and IE respect this setting and do not zoom everything larger. Firefox zooms no matter if this is checked or not. Someone please pass this along on Bugzilla, I don't have an account there. This would solve the problem many are having.



I don't think this option has anything to do with the problem. XP scaling is used almost by everyone because not all programs are dpi aware. If you uncheck XP scaling, log off/on, you will notice that those programs that aren't dpi aware will be fuzzy looking. Firefox is still clear which tells me it is dpi aware.

The reason Fx22 with the DPI patch looks like it does is that the devs decided to scale all of Firefox to the OS DPI instead of doing it itself. Both the chrome and content are affected. It's as if you set the default zoom to full page zoom at 150% for content as well as chrome.

Is you problem an issue with 150dpi only?
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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 9:37 am

Nah, I do think it is a problem with Firefox. With xp scaling on, IE10 does not scale at 150 dpi, everything stays tiny. With it off it does scale the content and chrome larger to whatever dpi it is set to. Firefox ignores the preference and just scales either way. It shouldn't be scaling at all if xp scaling is checked for the program, that's the point.

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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 10:20 am

StinDaWg wrote:Someone please pass this along on Bugzilla, I don't have an account there.

You know that you can create an account within a few minutes, don't you? ;)

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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 10:35 am

StinDaWg wrote:Nah, I do think it is a problem with Firefox. With xp scaling on, IE10 does not scale at 150 dpi, everything stays tiny. With it off it does scale the content and chrome larger to whatever dpi it is set to. Firefox ignores the preference and just scales either way. It shouldn't be scaling at all if xp scaling is checked for the program, that's the point.


I tested this out. I made sure Fx22 had -1.0 pref to make it use the OS DPI.

You appear to be correct.

Fx22 scaled up it's chrome at dpi's of 125% and 150% using XP or No XP.

IE10 kept the chrome the same size at dpi's of 125% and 150% using XP or No XP.

If you look at the zoom factor in IE10 it was either 125% or 150% according at what the OS dpi was set to. Fx22 shows the zoom as being 100%, where in reality it is 125% or 150% depending on the OS dpi.

I really can't say with certainty that Fx22 is violating some law of XP scaling or it's just doing things it's own way. Is there any documentation that states that XP scaling is what prevents IE10 and other programs from upscaling?

At least two suggestions can be made for Fx22.

1. Don't scale chrome for DPI's > 96. Make it a little larger it you want like IE10 does, but maintain the same size with all dpi's > 96

2. Report the full page zoom like IE10 does. It should not be 100 when the dpi is 125% or 150%. It should reflect what the OS dpi is.
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Post Posted March 18th, 2013, 3:15 pm

If you want to make the larger buttons look better (subjective) try using this CSS code in userChrome.css or stylish:

.toolbarbutton-icon{ image-rendering: -moz-crisp-edges !important;}

The latest hourly has a patch that uses this. The patch is 848150 – Update about:home favicons

I suspect this might be used for all chrome items in the future.
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Post Posted March 19th, 2013, 5:56 am

Saw you posted in that bug.

(In reply to Gary [:streetwolf] from comment #74)
> IE10 kept the chrome the same size at dpi's of 125% and 150% using XP
> scaling or No XP scaling.

This is not correct, AFAICS - certainly in my testing, I'm seeing IE10 scale the chrome according to dpi setting, as expected. It's true that it appears to use the same size -icons- within the chrome at both 125% and 150% (though they're larger than the 100% icons), but the chrome as a whole, and text within it, are all scaled to different sizes at the different dpi settings.


I don't know why he says that IE10 enlarges chrome at 125 and 150 dpi with XP scaling checked, because it certainly doesn't. Firefox chrome is huge compared to IE10 at 150 dpi with xp scaling. The screens you posted were clear as day. ](*,)

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Post Posted March 19th, 2013, 12:42 pm

I haven't changed my DPI settings but god damn Outlook.com looks horrible
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Post Posted March 20th, 2013, 11:05 am

Well another patch now changes things for the worse IMO. Patch https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852522 along with setting the pref devPixelsPerPx to 1.0 results in 'system' fonts not honoring your OS dpi. Font size appears to be 96dpi. This really bytes. I sure hope when they get to the light of the HiDPI tunnel Fx doesn't look like crap.
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Post Posted March 20th, 2013, 1:04 pm

FF22 is pretty ugly on my full HD screen with display at 125%. Icons are blurry as tab borders. :/

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Post Posted March 21st, 2013, 7:05 am

Did they change something in the newest nightly? I have devPixelsPerPx set to 1 and now the UI is extremely tiny.

Edit: just saw above. Now I have the choice of big blown up blurry fonts, or the UI so small I can barely read anything or make out what tabs say. Awesome. ](*,)

I guess it won't be so bad after they get high res fonts for icons and favicons. We'll see. Going to have to rock the new layout for now because I can barely read anything at devPixelsPerPx=1

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Post Posted March 21st, 2013, 5:25 pm

Anyone know if there is a pref or userChrome hack to revert this latest crap?
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