Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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- ehume
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
How long do we wait before they kill everything, I wonder.
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- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Well, I stopped waiting last December, which was when they planned and announced to shut them down and I think many others did as well. So, I was a bit surprised to see this survey pop up now.ehume wrote:How long do we wait before they kill everything, I wonder.
I can only see this as some sort of weak 'outreach' thing, rather than any serious attempt to solve this. I also think that non-performance/marketshare related payments are a dangerous thing as they make people stop trying or caring - just like Mozilla seems to have done.
Pity, but that's life.
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- patrickjdempsey
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Thanks. My opinions that they've been ignoring for 8 years have again been submitted.Frank Lion wrote:Email from AMO - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... rm?c=0&w=1
Go reinvent my backside.
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- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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- ehume
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Thanks, Frank. Looks pretty sketchy (in the original sense). One nice thing: in The Future of Firefox it says a goal will be to make future icons SVG. That will save me a lot of efforts since a good hunk of my themes are all about largeness.
In New Themes in Firefox - FAQ:
In New Themes in Firefox - FAQ:
Guess we'll have to discuss this.We expect to end support for Complete Themes in Firefox 57, due for release in November 2017. Some Complete Themes may find it feasible to use the “experimental” CSS support in the new theme system, and the ability to be layered on top of the default Firefox theme means avoiding compatibility headaches for the parts of the default theme you don’t want to change.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.
- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Hi Ed,ehume wrote:Thanks, Frank. Looks pretty sketchy (in the original sense). One nice thing: in The Future of Firefox it says a goal will be to make future icons SVG. That will save me a lot of efforts since a good hunk of my themes are all about largeness..
Hopefully, for your sake, I'm wrong on this but they don't mean SVG in the way you mean SVG. You're thinking images that can resize without quality drop, but they're not.
To them, using svg is a simplistic coding method of making icons, as they've never been that great at making conventional graphics and that's all. Plus, the UI buttons will be in fixed positions and will not be able to use different image-region.
I'm basing this on the Chrome UI - fixed position, fixed size UI buttons and also my personal experiences of making Linux OS themes, which do allow window manager folder/application icons to be different sizes, but fixed position, fixed size UI buttons.
You can even see it in Thunderbird these days - the Windows version use conventional png icons and the Linux version a very simplistic svg set, that look like 'potato stamps'. I'll spell it out, in the same way that I can write svg code to colororize, lighten, darken, etc. stuff, you can also generate simplistic svg icon shapes just with code. Obviously, you can also make 'proper' svg graphics, using Xara, Inkscape, etc. if you know how.
As for the UI itself, I reckon I already know how limiting that will be from making a couple of Linux OS themes and know their gtk2/gtk3 theme code and methods. In Firefox, it'll be hard to do much with them as the options are so restrictive. Think 'Mr Potato Head' and your choices of one of three noses, one of two hats, etc and you'll get the idea. Just depends on how easily pleased you are, really.
This train really has left the station, Ed.
Fascinating, I wonder where they ever got the idea from to do that?...and the ability to be layered on top of the default Firefox theme means avoiding compatibility headaches for the parts of the default theme you don’t want to change.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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- ehume
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Thank you. I guess they still allow PNG icons of differing dimensions, so little will change. But I wonder if we will be able to put icons on menus.
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- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Nope, that's precisely what will change!ehume wrote:Thank you. I guess they still allow PNG icons of differing dimensions, so little will change.
You're used to supplying the icons and -moz-image-regions to go with them and their states. However, in Chrome, K-Meleon, Quipzilla, Linux, etc. those -moz-image-regions are chosen by the program or OS and definitely not by you...and I reckon Firefox will be doing the same. So if, for example, the program uses 22x22 (or 16x16 even) then it's that or smaller.
Ed, I'm trying to get across that the entire innards of Firefox will be changed and that's why I keep talking about other programs with the same kind of innards and coding as Firefox will have, see?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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- ehume
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Oy! Where can I get info on what will change for us? I haven't tried theming for Chrome so I know nothing about it. Where does one get info on where the program looks for certain info, for example? Must our icon files now include info on icon sizes? Etc.
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
On one hand, it makes things more futureproof I guess (can't break what you can't edit), though it's basically an extension of Chrome themes. Take a look at the engineering plan for just how limited this will be. Key phrases such as "Extend Lightweight Themes" and "Google Chrome theme parity" are quite prominent there.
As for using SVGs I'd imagine this is to make things easier for HiDPI, since at the moment the default theme provides two PNGs for everything (well, everything they remember to look at) to account for HiDPI. The flat design, while easier to code, is playing right in line with the current design trends that everyone seems to be following.
As for using SVGs I'd imagine this is to make things easier for HiDPI, since at the moment the default theme provides two PNGs for everything (well, everything they remember to look at) to account for HiDPI. The flat design, while easier to code, is playing right in line with the current design trends that everyone seems to be following.
- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Pretty much as Lootyhoof wrote, I reckon. I haven't followed this stuff at all these days, but noticed that above link the other day so thought it might be of interest here.ehume wrote:Oy! Where can I get info on what will change for us?
Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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- ehume
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
There are some extensions and my theme that are lacking on Chrome.Frank Lion wrote:Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
Firefox: Sic transit gloria mundi.
- Frank Lion
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Sounds like you think I use Chrome? Have a look at the links in my sig and guess what browser I use.ehume wrote:There are some extensions and my theme that are lacking on Chrome.Frank Lion wrote:Don't forget, I haven't used Firefox in well over 2 years now.
Not that it matters to me theme-wise, I'll theme anything that keeps still long enough if it amuses me to.
But, on a personal level, I've always thought that browser programs have far too much importance attached to them, so I'm damned if I'm going to use a program that tries to torment me in the pretty simple sole task of just displaying websites, so that rules out Firefox and Chrome.
I've settled on 'just works' and get on with more important things.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attrib.)
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Re: Product plan: remove support for heavyweight themes
Lootyhoof wrote:On one hand, it makes things more futureproof I guess (can't break what you can't edit), though it's basically an extension of Chrome themes. Take a look at the engineering plan for just how limited this will be. Key phrases such as "Extend Lightweight Themes" and "Google Chrome theme parity" are quite prominent there.
They might as well just rename firefox chromefox at this point. Ever since ver 4.x they have been steering in that direction anyway. Pisses me off b/c I absolutely cannot stand chrome, and year after year they keep chipping away at the things that used to separate itself from chrome.