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Junk mail control not running automatically

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Post Posted September 14th, 2018, 1:07 pm

I have the latest version of TB. Lately, the junk mail controls are not running automatically when TB starts up on my desktop computer. Previously, the controls ran on new email in my Inbox as soon as TB started up. TB is set to run junk mail controls automatically and to move junk mail to the junk folder of my mail account. I have compacted my TB folders, but this doesn't seem to affect this issue.

I have tried running the junk mail controls manually. It takes several attempts to get it to run. Then, it takes a very long time for the controls to go through my Inbox and the junk mail is marked junk but then loses the junk icon while the controls are still running. It took so long to run that I turned off TB to stop it.

I don't know if this is related, but lately when TB is opened on my desktop computer, it sometimes has to re-download all message headers from the AOL IMAP server. This is also happening on my iPhone with my AOL account. This may be an AOL issue, and I may post a separate question about this.

Is there anything to be done about both of these issues?

tanstaafl
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Post Posted September 14th, 2018, 8:06 pm

There are two latest versions of Thunderbird. Do you mean 60.0 (only available from the web site, not as a update yet) or 52.9.1?

Does this problem occur in safe mode (help -> restart with add-ons disabled)?

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Post Posted September 15th, 2018, 5:38 am

Thanks, tanstaafl.

I am running TB 52.9.1.

I have restarted TB in safe mode. (I hadn't made any changes in Addons in years.) Junk mail controls still does not run on startup.

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Post Posted September 18th, 2018, 11:23 am

I have still not been able to resolve the failure of junk mail controls to run. No luck with restarting in safe mode. I then removed TB completely from my computer have reinstalled TB 52.9.1 with no addons. Junk mail controls still do not run automatically.

I have manually marked some mail to the Junk subfolder in the AOL folder on TB. When I do so, the Junk flame icon briefly appears and then the mail item moves to the Junk subfolder. However, the mail item does not show the orange flame Junk icon when it is listed in the Junk folder. The next day, additional mail from the same sender is not automatically marked Junk.

What is also new is that within TB, a new Bulk Mail folder has recently appeared in the AOL folder. I looked at it for the first time today, and it contains 41 obviously junk/spam mail from senders that I have not seen before reaching my Inbox. The orange Junk mail icon is displayed on each mail item listed there, even though I have not manually tagged them as Junk. Also within this Bulk Mail folder are a couple of non-Junk mail items that I have Deleted from my Inbox several days ago.

All of this is confusing to me. Can anyone please help me get Junk filtering working again? Do I need to check the Junk mail logging box in the settings? Or is logging something different from running the Junk mail controls?

tanstaafl
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Post Posted September 18th, 2018, 11:43 am

The bulk mail folder might have been created by AOL, if you are using IMAP. Usually both your email provider and Thunderbird are doing junk filtering, and neither is aware of what the other is doing. Usually you want both of them to use the same "junk" folder.

Check whether the accounts junk mail controls think junk or bulk mail is the "junk" folder. It sounds like Thunderbird is configured to use the bulk mail folder for the AOL IMAP account. It's a shame there is a optional message filter log but no optional junk mail log.

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Post Posted September 18th, 2018, 11:55 am

Thanks, tanstaafl.

I see in TB's account settings, there is a checkbox with 2 options as to where to direct mail that is marked as Junk:

One is the "Junk" folder on: the account name that I have designated in TB, and showing an envelope + padlock icon.

The other is labeled: "Other" with a drop down menu that is filled in with an orange Junk icon and the name of my account as I have named it in TB.

What is the difference, and which radio button should I choose? They are both labeled "Junk".

But more importantly, neither setting brings back the automatic running of the Junk mail controls when I open TB or when I click on the Inbox folder. This is on a brand new TB install. This is the case whether I have logging on or off.

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Post Posted September 19th, 2018, 4:26 am

I hate to ask, but is "enable adaptive junk mail controls for the account" checked? My impression is that if that's checked, the only reason a junk message isn't moved is if there is something wrong with either the source or destination folder. Usually the problem is the destination folder is corrupt.

"move new junk messages to: has two choices. One is "junk folder on", which typically chooses junk as the junk folder. Its list box appears to only let you chose known junk folders in the various accounts. The list box for "Other:" lets you specify any folder as the junk folder. Sometimes "other" defaults to an existing junk folder used by your email provider (with a different name such as junk mail) which will have the orange junk icon, other times it defaults to choose folder. In all cases with other you can chose any folder.

It's ambiguous what folder is actually used when selecting "junk folder on" with a email provider that normally uses a folder named something other than junk. I have a junk, junk email and a spam folder in my Gmail IMAP account. I thought it was [Gmail]spam but I can't get that folder actually listed in the folder pane, even when subscribed. You need to experiment.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Junk_Mail_Controls
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/th ... m-messages

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Post Posted September 19th, 2018, 5:04 am

Thanks again, tanstaafl, for your comments. I have always wondered about these somewhat ambiguous settings choices. You have provided a detailed explanation.

Yes, I have "enable adaptive junk mail controls" on for my mail account. What is curious is that I made no settings or addons changes for years and the junk controls just stopped working. Again, this started happening about the time that the Bulk mail subfolder started appearing in the AOL folder. And it persists even with a brand new TB install and profile with no addons.

I've contacted AOL support, but received only a canned response to check my connection to their servers is working with the proper password and ports. It is.

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Post Posted September 28th, 2018, 2:18 pm

Despite trying everything I can think of, I have been unable to get junk mail filtering to run automatically on my AOL IMAP account on FF 52.9.1 when TB is opened, even running a new install of TB and a clean profile without addons.

After reading another thread and a bug report, I am thinking that this has something to do with a change in AOL'ls IMAP servers, as it used to work perfectly and started suddenly when a new Bulk Mail folder suddenly appeared for this account. I am experiencing some of the same symptoms relating to the Junk mail icon as mentioned in the thread noted below no longer displaying for junk mail manually moved to the Junk folder or moved when the junk mail control is started manually (which does work).

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3038777&start=15

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1260059

Before this problem started, the AOL account included a Spam folder that seemed to collect bulk mail that was filtered by AOL on its servers, separate and apart from a Junk folder that was collecting only mail that I had trained the TB junk filter to catch. That AOL Spam folder is now labeled Bulk Mail, and when it was introduced, TB's junk mail control stopped running automatically when TB is opened.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted September 28th, 2018, 2:24 pm

I suggest you configure the AOL account in Thunderbird to use bulk mail as the "junk" folder. Since Verizon now owns both Yahoo and AOL and Yahoo uses bulk mail as the junk folder, I suspect that is why the folder changed in AOL.

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Post Posted September 28th, 2018, 2:27 pm

OK, tanstaafl, I'll try that.

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Post Posted September 30th, 2018, 2:53 pm

tanstaafl, changing the settings to send junk mail to the AOL Bulk Mail folder has not restored the automatic running of TB's junk mail controls.

I am out of ideas.

As the same issue has started occurring at the same time on both my desktop and notebook Windows 10 computers, I think there must be an issue with TB dealing with AOL's servers. But I don't know how to resolve it. This is very unfortunate as my Inbox is filling with junk email on a daily basis now.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted September 30th, 2018, 4:03 pm

What are your AOL accounts "junk settings"?

What does the junk log file say? It enabled in tools -> options -> security -> junk.

Use view -> message source or control-U to look at the raw message source and see if AOL adds a custom header (it will begin with a X) such as X-SpamScore to record how likely it thinks the message is spam. If so, you can configure Thunderbird to do use that setting to determine if its junk or not. You'd have to pick a threshold (at that value or above its junk) if you do that.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Junk_Mail_Con ... l_provider

Do you have another (non-AOL) account? Does it have the same problem?

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Post Posted October 1st, 2018, 10:19 am

Thank you for this information, tanstaafl.

I had the junk filter logging off most recently and am turning it on now to see if it is helpful. I recall that I tried this a few days ago and saw no entries at all, but I will recheck this.

I have 2 mail accounts, AOL (primary) and Comcast (hardly used at all). I don't think the automatic Junk mail control starts on either account. I looked at the raw message source for a few emails in each account. Mail in the AOL account has a couple of X- headers, but none that refer to Spam. Mail in the Comcast account has several X- headers, with only one referring to Spam:

X-CAA-SPAM: T00000

That is all I can find.

I do not really get any Junk mail in the Comcast account, but I tried copying some Junk mail in my AOL Inbox and pasting it into my Comcast Inbox. I then closed and reopened TB, but again the automatic Junk filtering did not start on either the AOL or the Comcast account.

tanstaafl
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Post Posted October 1st, 2018, 11:17 am

I've never gotten spam in the Comcast junk folder. If you forward some junk mail to yourself it might ignore that because the sender was in your personal address book (that feature is enabled by default).

If I manually mark a message in the inbox as junk the junk mail controls display the yellow line telling me Thunderbird thinks its junk with [learn more] and [not junk] buttons. Does that work on your system?

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