Using Windows XP Home? Not for Much Longer.

wget · Post by **wget** » January 4th, 2006, 2:43 pm

Dell is probably using it as a bargaining chip to get lower Windows prices. That's what he's doing with Intel.

MeCasa · Post by **MeCasa** » January 4th, 2006, 3:47 pm

Any significance to FreeDOS as their choice?

Another article

rkl · Post by **rkl** » January 4th, 2006, 5:23 pm

condorito wrote:To me, it's antitrust material that brand name PCs come with Windows preinstalled. I want Dell to start asking... What OS would you like us to preload on your brand new PC?, or something like that.

Or even just:

* Windows XP Home [plus $30 (or whatever it is)]
* Windows XP Pro [plus $100 (or whatever it is)]
* No OS [$0]
[WARNING: Choosing "No OS" will mean that you must install the operating system and software yourself and Dell will under no circumstances provide any OS or software support for your machine]

Dell don't need to provide Linux at all (with all the additional support issues that entails) - just give us the bleeding option to buy one of your desktops or laptops with no OS pre-installed (and no OS/software support) for a little less!!

Crucial note here - the important thing is to not separate out the "non-Windows Dell desktop" from the rest of the home desktops that Dell sell - it should merely be a (No-)OS option in the "Customize and Buy" pages of all their desktops. Dell do separate the Windows vs. non-Windows desktops and often charge *more* for worse hardware for the Linux version! It also makes it near impossible to compare like-for-like if the hardware is different, which is clearly a deliberate move by Dell to confuse the issue.

Drahken · Post by **Drahken** » January 5th, 2006, 2:04 pm

Regardless of the fact that it is their ineptitude that caused the vulnerability in the first place, they will (as usual) make more money in spite of it.

On the other hand, this flaw has existed for an eternity (I think i read on one site that it existed on 3.0!), yet has only surfaced now. Immediately after it surfaces, M$ announces that they will no longer support XP home. Seems a little ...odd to me. It's entirely possible that M$ themselves released this worm specifically to get all the people using old versions of windows to update.

I'm not going to giv this "no more support" statement much credit yet. Remember a while back when they claimed they would cease all support of win98, then changed their minds and said they'd continue to release critical security fixes for it?

Vista? Is that the new name of longhorn? That piece of crap can kiss my ass. There's no way I'll ever install something that can sit there and delete my files anytime someone in some corporate office thinks they might be suspicous.

wget · Post by **wget** » January 5th, 2006, 2:09 pm

Drahken wrote:Immediately after it surfaces, M$ announces that they will no longer support XP home. Seems a little ...odd to me. It's entirely possible that M$ themselves released this worm specifically to get all the people using old versions of windows to update.

Ahahahahahahahaha.

Uncle Spellbinder · Post by **Uncle Spellbinder** » January 5th, 2006, 6:32 pm

Drahken wrote:Vista? Is that the new name of longhorn? That piece of crap can kiss my ass. There's no way I'll ever install something that can sit there and delete my files anytime someone in some corporate office thinks they might be suspicous.

You're kidding, right? I am not a Windows fan at all, either. But to say "delete my files anytime someone in some corporate office thinks they might be suspicous" is bordering on lunacy. And if this was happening at all, the news organizations would be all over it far worse than they hit Sony.

Drahken · Post by **Drahken** » January 6th, 2006, 5:46 am

Lookup "trusted computing".
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing

One of the numerous obnoxious things "trusted computing" (a misnomer if ever I saw one!) does is allow someone out there to delete mp3 and movie files if they think that it's pirated material. If you recorded a speech about metallic acid for some science class, then titled it "metallicacid.mp3", some record industry punk might see an mp3 with "metallica" in the title and decide that it's pirated and delete it from your system, without you even knowing until after the fact.

Dell do separate the Windows vs. non-Windows desktops and often charge *more* for worse hardware for the Linux version!

Best option in that case would be to get a copy of whatever flavor linux you want, then get the cheaper/better hardware PC. As soon as you bring it home, reformat the drive and install linux yourself.

wget · Post by **wget** » January 6th, 2006, 9:03 am

Do you have any evidence beyond a lot of "coulds" and "maybes" on some random webpage? How about you also try to substantiate your ludicrous suggestion that MS is somehow behind the exploit and your uninformed claim that they've just announced the XP Home lifecycle?

Uncle Spellbinder · Post by **Uncle Spellbinder** » January 6th, 2006, 9:12 am

"Coulds" and "Maybes". That's all there is, really. I do agree that maybe it could happen. But again, if something of this nature were to happen, it would be VERY short-lived. The media would be all over it like bees on honey.

Drahken · Post by **Drahken** » January 6th, 2006, 10:27 am

There are countless pages on that trusted computing crap, most of which all agree on what it can do. What it will do is anyone's guess. It's possible that all of this will ammount to nothing, but it's also possible that gates will give every last cent he has to charity.
Even the official pages about trusted computing state that only programs with proper license will run on a TC enabled comp, and it doesn't take an einstein to realize what that will do to freeware.

My suggestion about M$ being behind the exploit wasn't completely serious (although it wouldn't surprise me to find out it was true). I was simply pointing out that the timing of everything was highly suspicious. As uncle spellbinder pointed out, it's highly unlikely that anything like that would escape notice for long, so it's equally unlikely for that to be the case. (However, the fact that it couldn't stay secret for long is the only reason why I don't think it's actually true. "Planned obsolescence" has been a fact of the manufacturing industry for decades, a stunt like this wouldn't be a far cry from that.)

old Ol Grumpy · Post by **old Ol Grumpy** » January 6th, 2006, 10:44 am

There's always going to be someone to try and make things proprietary to benefit themselves and close the door on others. Waving a moral flag of "safety" or "reliability" is going to go far with less informed individuals, which is the key. Folks have to be informed, shown not just some negetive comments or embroiling them in flame wars but shown the mechanics in terms they can relate to.

You buy a 3/8" drive electric drill motor, you go and try and put your drill bit in and it doesn't go, because the shape of your drill bit doesn't have the ears sticking out which release the lock. It's a matter of standards. In this case they change the laws and standards well in advance of any activity which smacks monopolistic practices or of restraint of trade.

It also leads to the complete control of hardware and software together as a package, something they tried with just the software with Windows 95 and the exclusionary licensing practices which did more to cause the dotcom busts than anything as folks were driven out of business, gave up or were bought out.

Idealistically everyone wants the perfect computer which communicates across all platforms, doesn't give away the family jewels or secrets and never breaks and runs everything they want or need. If information gathering and supply wasn't a business before what makes you think it won't be an issue if this takes hold. Gee I can watch movies and listen to TV, just don't do your taxes on the same box.

Exploit, someone behind it. What about some of the spyware issues of just a few months ago, what about the trolls at various forums supporting software alternative to Microsoft, yeah. it's all volunteers with altruistic intentions.

wget · Post by **wget** » January 6th, 2006, 11:12 am

Drahken wrote:There are countless pages on that trusted computing crap, most of which all agree on what it can do. What it will do is anyone's guess. It's possible that all of this will ammount to nothing, but it's also possible that gates will give every last cent he has to charity.

Sooo... basically what you have to show is a huge pile of absolutely nothing wrapped in tinfoil with a helping of ironic dollar signs to show how anti-commercialistic you really are? Great job there, McFly! Your strong arguments are very convincing.

Personally I firmly believe that the next Windows will be marketed exclusively to gay satanists because that's a group Bill Gates identifies strongly with - him being a gay satanist himself. I have no proof beyond a webpage hosted somewhere, but you can't deny that it may or may not be true. I also drink my own urine.

MeCasa · Post by **MeCasa** » January 6th, 2006, 10:14 pm

wget, it's hard to believe but you've left me speechless 8-[

Rishi M. · Post by **Rishi M.** » January 6th, 2006, 10:19 pm

wget wrote:Personally I firmly believe that the next Windows will be marketed exclusively to gay satanists because that's a group Bill Gates identifies strongly with - him being a gay satanist himself. I have no proof beyond a webpage hosted somewhere, but you can't deny that it may or may not be true. I also drink my own urine.

Do you mind if I quote this in my signature? It's too funny to pass up!

Post by **BenBasson** » January 7th, 2006, 3:27 am

wget wrote:Sooo... basically what you have to show is a huge pile of absolutely nothing wrapped in tinfoil

That pretty much sums up the trusted-computing thing, yeah. It could be really detrimental to the computing industry, which is why it actually won't ever happen. Third-party programmers aren't going to just stand for losing their jobs or freedom en-masse.

Using Windows XP Home? Not for Much Longer.

A "No OS" option would do me...