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Strongly suggest V2.0 keep the option [force in same tab]

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sunnyhil
 
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Post Posted May 11th, 2006, 7:20 am

Hi,

<b>Strongly suggest V2.0 keep the option "force in same tab"</b>

I like firefox very much, it's so exciting.
But in the firefox version 2.0 beta, the option "Force links that open new windows to open in the same tab/window as the link" was unfortunately removed.
In CHINA, almost every sites mark links open in new window , for advertisement income improvement or some other reason. In firefox version 1.3, the option "force in same tab" is very usefull to me. Totally get rid of the trouble of plentiful windows(IE6) or tabs(IE7).

I don't know the reason why kill this option, nothing can do but express my suggestion.

Thanks a lot.

logan

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Post Posted May 11th, 2006, 7:51 am

Are you talking about the missing UI or the feature working differently than it did in Firefox 1.5?

about:config -> browser.link.open_newwindow -> 1

Prior to 2.0, .open_newwindow.restriction applied to window.open() calls only. As I understand it, Gecko 1.8.1+ removed the .open_newwindow check from nsDocShell in bug 323810, so now anything without special window features (target=_blank) is included by the remaining code in nsContentTreeOwner.

# browser.link.open_newwindow
1: open in the current window
2: open in a new window (seamonkey: default)
3: open in a new tab (firefox: default)

# browser.link.open_newwindow.restriction
0: no restrictions - divert everything (seamonkey: default)
1: don't divert window.open at all
2: don't divert window.open with features (firefox: default)

sunnyhil
 
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Post Posted May 11th, 2006, 9:05 am

That's okey, but this useful feature should be kept in UI as what Firefox 1.5 did, just let users make their own decision.

Nothing can do but express my suggestion. Thanks a lot.

JonHa
 
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Post Posted May 12th, 2006, 4:25 am

Yes. Please reintegrate that in the UI. Many users (including me) wants to have the control over which links are opened in new tabs and which are not. Currently it is very difficult to open a link in the same tab when the webpage wants to open a new one.

Is there a bugzilla-bug?

BenBasson
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Post Posted May 12th, 2006, 5:49 am

The pref was merged deliberately - separate preferences are not coming back. Your best bet is to get a tabbed browsing extension.

P.S. Don't file a bug.

JonHa
 
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 2:18 am

This pref is merged? It looks like if it is erased from the UI. Where is the merged pref?

It would be very silly if you had to install a extension to set a simple and important about:config pref.

Why not make an additional option button "in the same tab"?

The previous UI was much better. Now the prefpane is so empty and there are many important preferences missing.

BenBasson
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 4:33 am

Previously, the UI had this:

Code: Select all
Open links from other applications in:
( ) a new window
(o) a new tab in the most recent window
( ) the most recent tab/window

[x] Force links that open new windows to open in:
     ( ) the same tab/window as the link
     (o) a new tab

Now it has this:

Code: Select all
Open links that would open new windows in:
( ) new windows
(o) new tabs in the most recent window

The setting applies for external and internal link clicks. Instead of having a pointless extra option (as if, for some reason, people are going to want tabs in some cases but windows in others) , it's tabs or windows - take your pick.

The old wording was bad. The old choices were bad.

"the most recent tab" is destructive as it replaces content without the user even realising (a minimised Firefox window would lose it's current page as it handles external links). After the removal of that, the two preferences are for all intents and purposes identical and therefore got merged.

JonHa wrote:It would be very silly if you had to install a extension to set a simple and important about:config pref.

No it wouldn't. That's why over-the-top pref tweaking extensions have existed since forever. See Tab Mix Plus if you want control over a few dozen tab preferences for some reason.

JonHa wrote:Why not make an additional option button "in the same tab"?

Because it doesn't make any sense. Users either want tabs or they want windows. They certainly aren't going to benefit from a mix of both (which would lead to confusion about the inconsistent behaviour of the browser) and nobody benefits from their current web page (minimised) being lost when they click a link in an email program.

old zeniko
 
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 5:10 am

Cusser wrote:as if, for some reason, people are going to want tabs in some cases but windows in others

The reason is: I don't want web authors to decide when I get a new tab/window.

There is currently no way to circumvent a <code>target="_blank"</code> link - while you've got the choice to force links into new windows or tabs (through the context menu or some modifiers). The difference between internal and external links can also be seen as follows: when you follow an internal link you might know that you don't need/want the current page any longer - and when you activate an external links, there is no such thing as a "current page" (resp. it is an arbitrary page). Because of this, having an additional option to ignore link targets makes IMO sense (although the option might need to be reworded).

NB: I suppose that independently of these settings, sized popups will per default always open as windows.

JonHa
 
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 5:22 am

I do not want to open links from external applications in the same tab. That would be destructive and ugly. I don't want that webpages can force new tabs/windows. With the old preferences you could select

Code: Select all
Open links from other applications in:
( ) a new window
(o) a new tab in the most recent window
( ) the most recent tab/window

[x] Force links that open new windows to open in:
     (o) the same tab/window as the link
     ( ) a new tab


Now external links are not destructive, but webpages do not have the control over new windows/tabs. Currently you can not make such preferences.

I suggest the following UI:

Code: Select all
Tabbed browsing settings:
( ) Use windows      <- external links and target=_blank" links open in new windows
(o) Use tabs          <- external links and target=_blank" links open in new tabs

[ ] Force links that open new windows/tabs to the same window/tab         
                       ^ external links will be unaffected from this


And the new wording is bad, too:
Open links that would open new windows in

Who said that links from external applications would open new windows? Nobody.

BenBasson
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 6:06 am

zeniko wrote:The reason is: I don't want web authors to decide when I get a new tab/window.

Grab an extension.

zeniko wrote:The difference between internal and external links can also be seen as follows: when you follow an internal link you might know that you don't need/want the current page any longer

Indeed.

zeniko wrote:and when you activate an external links, there is no such thing as a "current page" (resp. it is an arbitrary page). Because of this, having an additional option to ignore link targets makes IMO sense (although the option might need to be reworded).

If anything, I'd prefer to see a hidden pref to ignore targets that open new windows/tabs. I don't see why this needs UI. Developers have been discouraged from using such links for as long as I can remember, anyway.

BenBasson
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 6:08 am

JonHa wrote:And the new wording is bad, too

Your sample wording above is too long. No wording is going to be perfect, but the current wording works.

JonHa wrote:Who said that links from external applications would open new windows? Nobody.

Indeed, nobody is saying this at all. This is what's known as a heuristic. The user isn't told that this will happen, but it happens.

Whether or not the "ignore targets" type setting is useful is a matter of debate. Clearly the developers don't think it's worth keeping, otherwise it'd be there. It also doesn't make sense when you're asking the user what to do in cases where new windows would be opened.

There are extension solutions to this, and I suspect that's what you're going to have to use unless you can make a much better case for including it.

JonHa
 
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 6:18 am

Cusser wrote:
JonHa wrote:And the new wording is bad, too

Your sample wording above is too long. No wording is going to be perfect, but the current wording works.

I did not want to give a better wording, I want to make a better set of preferences and UI design.

Of course you could shorten that "Force links that open new windows/tabs to the same window/tab".

My point is removing that "would open new windows" and replacing it with a general setting "use tabs"/"use windows". And the new checkbox at the bottom would expose the "missing" pref this thread is about.

old zeniko
 
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 6:36 am

Cusser wrote:If anything, I'd prefer to see a hidden pref to ignore targets that open new windows/tabs. I don't see why this needs UI. Developers have been discouraged from using such links for as long as I can remember, anyway.

Which doesn't prevent this very forum to add <code>target="_blank"</code> to all phpBB links.

Interestingly there exist quite detailed prefs for other issues where web authors could just behave (e.g. the advanced JavaScript restrictions or the option to overwrite link colors). I don't suppose these are going away - the devs already had to re-add the JavaScript options.

I'm even more interested in how complete they plan to remove the different code paths for when a new window should be opened. As of this comment to bug 324164, there won't even be two different hidden prefs - meaning that extension authors - myself included - might have to do more than just add UI for them (and no, just dynamically removing all <code>target</code> attributes isn't a clean solution for this issue).

BenBasson
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Post Posted May 13th, 2006, 6:43 am

zeniko wrote:Which doesn't prevent this very forum to add <code>target="_blank"</code> to all phpBB links.

I don't think highly of phpBB in general.

zeniko wrote:Interestingly there exist quite detailed prefs for other issues where web authors could just behave (e.g. the advanced JavaScript restrictions or the option to overwrite link colors). I don't suppose these are going away - the devs already had to re-add the JavaScript options.

Those prefs are only back because the way they were handled in the new configuration was technically worse. Giving back the choice was the only reasonable solution in the time-frame, but not necessarily the correct one.

Personally, I don't see why any of those JavaScript options should be visible in the UI. The "allow JavaScript to change images" pref is now enabled by default and hidden. The rest should be disabled by default (except maybe raise/lower windows) and hidden.

zeniko wrote:I'm even more interested in how complete they plan to remove the different code paths for when a new window should be opened. As of this comment to bug 324164, there won't even be two different hidden prefs - meaning that extension authors - myself included - might have to do more than just add UI for them (and no, just dynamically removing all <code>target</code> attributes isn't a clean solution for this issue).

If you're bothered by this, you should track down Mike Connor and talk to him about your concerns. He's quite often on IRC and does respond to email.

asqueella
 
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Post Posted May 14th, 2006, 11:00 am

Cusser wrote:
zeniko wrote:
Cusser wrote:If anything, I'd prefer to see a hidden pref to ignore targets that open new windows/tabs. I don't see why this needs UI. Developers have been discouraged from using such links for as long as I can remember, anyway.

Which doesn't prevent this very forum to add <code>target="_blank"</code> to all phpBB links.

I don't think highly of phpBB in general.


It's like saying "let's remove popup blocker, good guys don't do popups".

The UI change was based on an assumption that there should be fewer differences between client and web apps. I find this idea rather strange, because web apps are maybe 0.001% of all the pages on the Internet. And many of those 99.999% pages abuse the options to open links in new windows.

If you're bothered by this, you should track down Mike Connor and talk to him about your concerns. He's quite often on IRC and does respond to email.

I think zeniko makes excellent points, but trying to persuade Firefox devs once they settled on their decision is no fun.

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