Maybe they need to get closer to users.
This goes for many developers, really.
Frank Lion wrote:Perhaps then, the time has come for Mozilla to directly take a much larger responsibility for providing Support of Mozilla products and rely much less of the MozillaZine forums to provide this service for them.
Hendikins wrote:These Forums
These forums are a rather tender subject with me, ...(and moderating another large forum has been a real eye opener!).)
Hendikins wrote:Whatever forum is used for support needs better moderators than this forum has at present, be it this one or a hypothetical MoCo one.
Hendikins wrote:* Good forums need active administrators!
Active administrators are vital for three main reasons - code changes, staff control and escalation. Any forum without active administrators will at best limp at a fraction of its potential, and at worst full in to utter disrepair. We're somewhere between the two. (Yes, I've seen this from the moderator standpoint, and it is why I am inactive on here...)
Hendikins wrote:* Anonymous posting has to go
Whilst it has some merits, on the whole is has proven to be a failed experiment. The sooner it gets scrapped the better. Other methods of support, such as IRC, are better suited towards anonymous users who just want an answer.
Hendikins wrote:...official MoFo/MoCo forum...
James wrote:Hendikins wrote:These Forums
These forums are a rather tender subject with me, ...(and moderating another large forum has been a real eye opener!).)
No kidding... .
The large forum is related to the particular ISP right, no need to say here.
James wrote:Hendikins wrote:Whatever forum is used for support needs better moderators than this forum has at present, be it this one or a hypothetical MoCo one.
All or just that you did not want to name names...
James wrote:Hendikins wrote:* Good forums need active administrators!
Active administrators are vital for three main reasons - code changes, staff control and escalation. Any forum without active administrators will at best limp at a fraction of its potential, and at worst full in to utter disrepair. We're somewhere between the two. (Yes, I've seen this from the moderator standpoint, and it is why I am inactive on here...)
Sure Jason and Alex is not around often but who could the additional admin(s) be in having the time, trust, is responsible...
James wrote:Hendikins wrote:* Anonymous posting has to go
Whilst it has some merits, on the whole is has proven to be a failed experiment. The sooner it gets scrapped the better. Other methods of support, such as IRC, are better suited towards anonymous users who just want an answer.
Ok, I am not the biggest fan of Guest posting either ever since it started in what August 2003 in "Miscellaneous Support", especially when it comes to trolls, spammers. I do think there should still be a limited amount allowed for reasons like member account issues for example perhaps.
James wrote:Hendikins wrote:...official MoFo/MoCo forum...
Hard to say whether the mention of "End-user forums" at http://samuelsidler.com/2007/05/further ... pport.html is referring to a possible official Mozilla forum or this forum or end user forums in general.
Samuel Sidler wrote:I've posted more information to the newsgroup and my blog. In the future, follow-ups will happen on the newsgroups almost exclusively.
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla. ... 6b07a5ae95
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: First End-User Support Meeting Tomorrow!
Date: 7 May 2007 19:36:12 -0700
From: majken@gmail.com
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: mozilla.support.planning
References: <1178582298>
On May 7, 7:58 pm, Samuel Sidler <samuel> wrote:
> (Posting from Google Groups since my past two posts to the newsgroup
> weren't picked up by Google...)
>
> Tomorrow is the first of our End-User Support meetings, which I
> blogged and posted about last week. Below is more information for the
> call-in. We'll be discussing the knowledge base; the current state,
> its role and needs, and other related items. Further below is a basic
> agenda for the meeting.
>
> We'll be posting minutes of the meeting to the newsgroup so if you're
> unable to call in, feel free to reply to that post with any comments
> you might have.
>
> * Tuesday, May 8, 10:00 am PDT
> * 650-903-0800 x91 Conf #284
> * 1-800-707-2533 (pin 369) Conf #284 (US)
> * Join #customersupport on irc.mozilla.org for the IRC back-
> channel
>
> Agenda
>
> 1. General overview of Firefox support efforts
> 2. Current state of knowledge base (mozillazine)
> * Process for adding content, any learnings, any
> shortcomings
> 3. New Ideas and Solution Brainstorm
> 4. Action Items/Next Steps
> * Take inventory of KB (plus analyzing data)
> * Organizing KB (tagging, etc)
> * Who can post/edit (change control)
> * KB best practices and style guide
> * Discussion of module owner; who resolves questions?
> * Vendors and Infrastructure research
Should 3 and 4 be reversed? or some of the things in 4 maybe moved to
3 (or even 2?) to get the brainstorming started. It seems to me at
least 3 of them would come up in 2 and therefore solutions to them
would be discussed in 3, not 4. Or is the idea that 2 and 3 discuss
them and 4 is deciding on what to do about those specific points based
on the discussion in 2 and 3?
VanillaMozilla wrote:It is probably not reasonable to ask unpaid moderators to be completely impartial, when their only reward is to take place in conversations. As soon as they have taken part in conversations, they are partisan to a point of view just like everyone else. Any special mellow personality traits notwithstanding, I'm sure this automatically places them under some strain.
trolly wrote:How impartial a mod can be depends on his/her personality.
malliz wrote:it's unfortunate some rather dull axes seem to be being ground at the moment. As the need to move forward in order to facilitate improvement should be paramount.
Hendikins wrote:trolly wrote:How impartial a mod can be depends on his/her personality.
Bingo - we don't have the right people doing the job, and technical expertise has nothing to do with it.
Dartman wrote:Hendikins wrote:trolly wrote:How impartial a mod can be depends on his/her personality.
Bingo - we don't have the right people doing the job, and technical expertise has nothing to do with it.
I've been involved in a couple controversial/argumentative threads and have heard comments that moderators (some or all?) on this forum are not liked. Hendikins, I see where you stand on the opinions of the moderators here. Perhaps I have missed it, but is there a thread, or conversation that states who doesn't like the moderators and for what reasons?
Dartman wrote:What I am trying to determine is if it's everybody/many, or just a few who don't like the moderating here.
Dartman wrote:[Often you will here a comment (in the news, or elsewhere) like "many people", or "everybody" dislikes the way something is being handled. You later find out that the "many people" or "everybody" is just a group of ten people.
Hendikins wrote:Dartman wrote:[Often you will here a comment (in the news, or elsewhere) like "many people", or "everybody" dislikes the way something is being handled. You later find out that the "many people" or "everybody" is just a group of ten people.
Of course, but I haven't said anywhere that I'm talking about a large number of people, nor everyone. I'm speaking only of my personal experiences (which are now starting to get somewhat dated, but still have valid organisational suggestions), what gets back to IRC and wherever else I may read.