aarem wrote:Actually, the notion of ctrl-Q as an application-quitting option came from Windoze.
That would be why it's in such common use, then...
Very few exclusively linux applications have it, unless they were ported from Windoze.
Very few Windows programs use it, even if they were ported from Linux (Gaim). So that makes very few altogether, doesn't it?
Your "TEN applications" are not really the useful ones, are they? No one who uses a computer as better than a toy uses Notepad. As far as the others, I have not even heard of some of them!
I find that insulting. Firstly, Notepad might not be Emacs but it's in extremely common use, and is perfectly good at what it;'s used for (simple text maniplution). Just because it isn't a £6000 CAD package doesn't mean it can be ignored.
The rest of my list:
WinRAR - extremely popular archive utility.
Winamp - extremely popular media player.
Getright - extremely popular download manager.
Sictus Prolog - probably the most widely-used Prolog app in Windows.
Explorer - need I go on?
Your ignorance is on par with your arrogance it seems.
aarem wrote:It is?? But all these other applications (acrobat, netscape, mozilla, word, openoffice, powerpoint, the entire office suite (I guess), and several others) all use it and they are that abhorrent?
The Office suite counts as one app there, not as many as you can ram home to try to reinforce your point. OpenOffice is an Office clone and like most clones is as determined to implement the bad user interface features of its parent as the good. That makes four apps on your list (Acrobat, Office, OpenOffice, Mozilla) comparing to ten on mine, and none of your four make it to my 'ten most used' list. Phoenix weighs in at 11 and it's on my side currently.
aarem wrote:First of all, it is not true in most applications! Certainly not the most common and useful ones, anyway. From my experience, most windoze users are not into keyboard bindings and in any case, the gui "x" users are not the same as the keybinding users (can't be).
The first is a lie (see above) and the second is an argument AGAINST ctrl-Q, because having ctrl-Q (close everything) next to ctrl-W (close a single tab, recoverable) is even more dangerous for people using keyboard shortcuts.
Very Microsofty!!
Where's the dollar sign? If you're going to act like a sterotypical linux zealot you need a dollar sign in Microsoft...
It does not "personally inconvenience" me greatly. I can always go back to Mozilla which today is standard across windoze and other OS's -- has the same interface.
Mozilla is slightly nonstandard on Windows and totally nonstandard on MacOS, and Linux doesn't really have standards as far as user interfaces go. If you mean it's consistent, yes it is - but consistence in menus across operating systems with different UI guidelines is ocasionally troublesome.
I use Phoenix because it is important to support the movement against bloat. Therefore, I think that this is against the grain of promoting standards. I think it is silly that just because some people can not distinguish between "close" and "quit" , they would get rid of the head to cure their headache!!
I think it's silly that a stupid power-user option like "Kill process" is on the menu bar to serve a few lazy geeks, at the expense of several sore heads from people losing all their data accidentally. "promotion of standards" is not what this is about, because you're asking for a nonstandard option.
Of course, getting rid of this file->exit menu is extremely silly because it would mean eliminating a way of killing the application cleanly. You may be unaware, but closing thewindow by using that "x" does not necessarily kill the process but may actually create an illegal process. These things matter for optimization of CPU resources (for actual computing users) -- even you may find the hourglass tiresome after a while....power CPU users would definitely get out of phoenix then!!
Just because I'm using Windows (note spelling - W and S are closer together than Z and E on my keyboard) does not mean I am not an "actual computing user". I prefer my operating system to serve ME first and ITSELF second, because this is a desktop machine designed to allow me to work productively.
I do not need nor want application-specific keyboard shortcuts which apply to the process rather than the document. I DO want the application to obey established operating system keyboard shortcuts (such as Alt-F4) rather than using its own.
This all applies only to Windows of course. Heaven forbid that I argue against X logic which dictates that every key on my keyboard has three associated modifier shortcuts, requires three pages of tables devoted to them, and implements them all regardless of how it's done in any other application or indeed on any machine other than the coder's.
- Chris