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1.0.2

Discussion of general topics about Seamonkey
Chris Hickman
 
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Post Posted November 6th, 2002, 11:39 pm

Will there be one? If so, when? I haven't heard anything about it!

Chris

asa

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Post Posted November 6th, 2002, 11:59 pm

Chris Hickman wrote:Will there be one? If so, when? I haven't heard anything about it!

Chris


Yep. We're workin' on it. It's not far off.

--Asa

Gunnar

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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 4:52 am

To give you an idea how work is progressing / what stands in the way of Mozilla 1.0.2's release, check out bug 161807 - Make Mozilla 1.0.2 not suck
I plan on sticking to the 1.0 branch, at least on my work PC, so I am really looking forward to 1.0.2.

Gunnar
http://mozilla.gunnars.net - The Mozilla Help Site

pepp5
 
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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 7:40 am

Okay so in the minds of many, we're wondering: Are there improvements in 1.0.2 that are not available in 1.2? Are there functionality or usability or UI fixes in 1.0.2 that are not in 1.2? Or the reverse, in 1.2 but not in 1.0.2? I'm getting the feeling now that 1.0.2 (and 1.0.1) contain more than super-critical crash fixes and security fixes. But 1.0.2 won't contain big new-feature things such as toolbar button improvements or type-ahead search, right?

Thanks

pepp

michel v

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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 7:45 am

Since the 1.0.x branch is the stable branch, don't think they'll get new features yet, especially features that wouldn't appear in 1.x. ;)

ishopnude_com

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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 8:40 am

Why would you continue to use that branch? I can't think of 1 reason to do so.. even the nightlies have been stable for me..

pepp5
 
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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 8:47 am

ishopnude_com wrote:Why would you continue to use that branch? I can't think of 1 reason to do so.. even the nightlies have been stable for me..


If that branch contains functionality fixes that are not present in the 1.x branch? This is about stability versus functionality behavior versus new features. I can't pinpoint it now, but I've seen annoying bugs in bookmarks and history in 1.1 that are fixed in 1.0.1. Not relating to stability, but relating to simply working correctly.

michel v

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Post Posted November 7th, 2002, 8:52 am

ishopnude_com wrote:Why would you continue to use that branch? I can't think of 1 reason to do so.. even the nightlies have been stable for me..

Linux distro vendors and embedders are encouraged to use the 1.0.x branch because it is less likely to have issues. This is 1 great reason for you. :)

ksheka

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Post Posted November 10th, 2002, 7:21 am

ishopnude_com wrote:Why would you continue to use that branch? I can't think of 1 reason to do so.. even the nightlies have been stable for me..


The 1.0.x branch has a stable interface. Developers can build on that interface without having the API change on them.

One practical example is the Mozilla spellchecker. It works on 1.0.x (so I've heard :-) ) but the API has changed since then, so it doesn't (currently) work on the trunk or 1.2 branch. :-(

MozSaysAloha
 
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Post Posted November 13th, 2002, 1:27 am

ksheka wrote:One practical example is the Mozilla spellchecker. It works on 1.0.x (so I've heard :-) ) but the API has changed since then, so it doesn't (currently) work on the trunk or 1.2 branch. :-(


The NS7 spellchecker and the mozdev one works in 1.0.1 without a hitch.

timrichardson
 
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Post Posted November 14th, 2002, 6:36 am

The main reason I use 1.0.1 at home is because it has a working spellchecker, 1.2 does not.
1.1 crashes for me quite frequently on one of my frequent visit websites (www.smh.com.au). 1.0.x does not. 1.2 doesn't crash either, and is much better than 1.0 or 1.1, but my wife refuses to use it if there is no spellchecker.

MozSaysAloha
 
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Post Posted November 14th, 2002, 11:40 pm

Asa, Am I correct in assuming that Type Ahead Find and the spam filters will be in 1.0.2?

Kommet

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Post Posted November 15th, 2002, 12:37 pm

MozSaysAloha wrote:Asa, Am I correct in assuming that Type Ahead Find and the spam filters will be in 1.0.2?

No you aren't. Type Ahead Find is new to Mozilla as of version 1.2 (added durring alpha) and Spam Filtering is new as of version 1.3 (again, added durring alpha).

The whole point of branching at version 1.0 is that all subsequent 1.0.X releases (i.e. the upcoming 1.0.2) will be STABLE, getting important security and stability fixes and little else. The APIs are not supposed to change, nor is the featureset.

The trunk is the only place for new feature work, and most of those new features are supposed to be integrated into the code durring the "alpha" stage. These new features invariably contain bugs and/or break other code or expose bugs which were never triggered before, making the pre-1.Xa (like pre-1.3a) builds less stable or reliable. After the official 1.Xa build is released the trunk closes to unlimited checkins and all new patches and fixes must be reviewed and approved. The point of the pre-1.Xb builds is to iron out the bugs created or exposed in the 1.Xa stage. When 1.Xb goes out, a new branch is created for that milestone and its progress is frozen except for upkeep and large bugs. Trunk work resumes at this point.

Here is (in clearer terms) why new features don't go into 1.0.2:

We have 4 codebases now, the 1.0.x branch, the 1.1.x branch, the brand new 1.2.x branch (which has no releases yet), and the trunk which currently contains what will become 1.3. Spam Filtering is added in the early hours of pre-1.3a work and is hailed as god-like code. We decide it needs to be added to 1.0.2 and 1.1.1 and 1.2.1 (so not to hold 1.2.0 up), so we create 4 separate patches, all of which need to be debugged separately because the codebases are separate.

We have now broken all 1.0/1.1 skins as we needed to add Junk icons to the Mail/News program and added a new API for filtering plugins. A few bugs slip through before 1.0.2 is released (hey, this is all ALPHA code on the trunk, it ain't perfect yet!) and suddenly everyone who built a product off the 1.0 branch (Netscape, et al.) after having been promised that it would remain stable finds that they have to recode their projects. Moreover, suddenly 1.0.2 is LESS stable than the previous release.

So much for the stable branches.

peterwilm
 
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Post Posted November 17th, 2002, 4:42 am

I understand that fixes of critical bugs (like topcrash bugs) go into the 1.0.x branch, but completely new UI - features won't.
But how exactly is the term "stability" defined ?

Are there any websites that can be viewed with 1.2 but not with 1.0.2 ? I.e. do all gecko - rendering and standard - compliance -
bugs into 1.0.2 ? Are there any new standards which 1.2 complies to, but not 1.0.2 ? Will the 1.2 gecko engine render some pages
which do not comply to standards (IE optimized pages), which the 1.0.2 engine does not ?

So my question is: If I do not care for new gimmick - features (like link - preloading, type-ahead, etc.) - are there any other trade - offs
if I use 1.0.2 instead of 1.2 ?

(I want to install 1.0.2 on a Self - Booting CD (KNOPPIX), which I cannot exchange easily, if new bugs occur - e.g. some popular
site changes its code and suddenly there is a new Mozilla - topcrash - bug revealed.)

Thanks!
Peter.

asa

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Post Posted November 17th, 2002, 12:17 pm

If you've built a product based on Mozilla 1.0 then you wil may not want to recode large hunks of your app to accomodate the nearly half a million lines of code which have changed since the branching. Now hopefully not all of those changes affect your Mozilla-based application but some of them inevitably will and to avoid that pain you might want to avoid moving to the trunk or the 1.2 branch.

The 1.0 branch development has continued but much more slowly than the trunk, harvesting well tested and specifically targeted fixes that have proved themselves on the trunk. The majority of the fixes happening on the 1.0 branch are to improve website compatability, stability (fixing crashers), and security. A few small and well tested features or feature-like fixes have made it onto the branch but the goal is not to develop that branch for "browser users" but rather for consumers of the Mozilla technologies.

If you're a technology consumer, maybe someone embedding Mozilla's rendering engine or shipping a branded browser distribution, and you _don't_ have a large investment in the 1.0 branch codebase or you're willing to reinvest some time then the 1.2 branch is where you should be. The 1.2 branch is going to be a very stable and featureful branch with a better set of public APIs and lots and lots of bug fixes that aren't and won't be available on the 1.0 branch.

So that covers the technology consumers. "What about the users?" you ask. Everyone using Mozilla the application suite, with the exception of the Mozilla testing community, should move to 1.2 when it's released. There's almost no reason to not get the 5000 or so fixes and features that the latest trunk release has that the latest 1.0 branch release doesn't have. Mozilla 1.2 is a far better app than any of the previous releases. If you're still using 1.0 or 1.1 then you absolutely want to upgrade to get security and stability fixes. You could either go to 1.0.2 or 1.2 (when they're released - soon) and with very few exceptions every user should move to Mozilla 1.2.

--Asa

<i>I just found my comments from the old forum answering some similar questions. I'll paste them here for posterity.</i>

The 1.0 branch is a slow moving, mostly bugfixes, codebase. It is intended for organizations that do not have the resources or do not have the desire to keep up with the much faster moving trunk.

I'm Joseph Schmoe and my company is building a set-top box that runs on Linux. I don't care about the Mozilla browser feature set. I don't even use most of the Browser feature set, I just want a good rendering engine. The 1.0 branch is just what I need because it moves pretty slow, allowing me to keep my work in sync with the branch work so I can pick up good security and stability fixes. I don't want to have to accept 100 new features just to get a security or crash fix into my product so migrating all my work to 1.1 or 1.2 isn't a great option. The trunk scares me because it has lots of new code and it might not integrate into my product without unknown consequences and lots of work.

I'm Anuradha Vora and I'm building a custom web browser for mission critical systems in a space program and I care about stability more than I care about new features or even most bug fixes. The branch is where I want to be because I don't need a lot of new features but I do need security and stability fixes. I want to be able to pull 1.0 code, start working on my custom browser and as the weeks or months pass I want to be able to update to get a lot of good fixes without having to get new features which would require extra work/support on my part. I can accept a few changes but the trunk scares me because it contains lots of unknowns and I'm already familiar with the code in the branch.

I'm Pierre Fernand and I just love Mozilla 1.0. It's perfect in every way. I don't want or need any new features and I don't mind any of the buggy or broken features I have now. I do care, however, about those scary hackers out there on the web who are all the time trying to steal my cookies. I hear that 1.0.1 has fixes that will stop those hackers from stealing my cookies so 1.0.1 is just what I need. I know that 1.1 also has the fixes that will stop the hackers in their tracks but I'm happy with what I have and I don't want anything new except for the cookie stealing fixes

Those fictional people are why we have a 1.0 branch and why we released a 1.0.1 milestone. They represent some of the people that this branch is intended for. If you're not one of those people then you probably want the Mozilla releases that come from the trunk (1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc.)

The 1.0.1 branch receives a subset of the fixes that went into the trunk. If it's in 1.0.1 then it's also in 1.1 and/or 1.2 because it landed on the trunk before it was allowed to land on the branch.

<img src="http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/branching-2002-08-01.png" border="1">

When you look at that map <a href="http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html#tree-management" target="blank">http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html#tree-management</a> think to yourself that <strong>everything</strong> goes into the trunk (where 1.1a, 1.1b,1.1,1.2a, etc come from) and then some of those fixes get moved up to the 1.0.1 branch if they prove to work well and not introduce new problems in the trunk.

When you look at the map and you look at the line on the trunk that goes from the point where 1.0 branched through the 1.1a, 1.1b,1.1, 1.2a there were about 4000 bugs fixed and features implemented.

When you look up to the branch line between the start of the branch and the release of 1.0 there were about 600 bugs fixed (all of those were first fixed on the trunk and then the fix was moved to the branch)

If you look at the line between 1.0 and 1.0.1 there were another 650 or so bugs fixed (again, all of those were fixed on the trunk and then the fixes were moved up to the branch).

As you can see, there are a lot of fixes and features landing on the trunk. This is where our primary focus is. Only about 1 in every 4 fixes is deemed important enough to integrate it into the old 1.0 branch. And the fix is usually not moved to the branch until it is very well tested on the trunk.

In short, and to repeat, the branch gets a subset of the fixes from the trunk. It only gets the fixes that are deemed by drivers@mozilla.org to be very important, very well tested or very low risk. This for the most part excludes new features landing on the branch. The branch is not where Mozilla applications are being developed. It is a slow-moving, relatively stable codebase with incremental and safe improvements intended for organizations who can't keep up with the rapid pace of trunk development. The branch will not live on forever. mozilla.org has said that it intends to keep it going for a year. Beyond that who knows. The trunk is the future and folks interested in a great Web browser should be using trunk releases. I highly recommend Mozilla 1.1 and I and others are working hard to make sure that Mozilla 1.2 will be even better.

--Asa
Last edited by asa on November 17th, 2002, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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