Why are Custom Keywords bookmarks?

Faux Pass · Post by **Faux Pass** » November 17th, 2002, 3:16 pm

Why are Custom Keywords bookmarks, given that they can't be used as bookmarks? (I.e., for clicking on) If I click on my "Google" Custom Keywords bookmark, I end up searching for the string %s on Google, which is useless. Plus, I have to personally keep track of which keywords I've already used, which is very irritating.

Making the CK's into bookmarks seems horribly kludgy. Let's just stick a simple table under Preferences somewhere. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

Oh, hey, look at <a href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162777">that</a>. Well, I'm still curious to hear what people think.

asa · Post by **asa** » November 17th, 2002, 3:28 pm

Faux Pass wrote:Why are Custom Keywords bookmarks, given that they can't be used as bookmarks?

They certainly can be used as bookmarks. I have dozens of custom keywords that work exactly like bookmarks. I type "mz" and it loads mozillazine. I type "bz" and it loads bugzilla. I type "css1" and load the w3c's css1 specification. They work just like bookmarks and they're great.

Faux Pass wrote:(I.e., for clicking on) If I click on my "Google" Custom Keywords bookmark, I end up searching for the string %s on Google, which is useless.

You're not talking about custom keywords. You're talking about the combination of custom keywords and the URL wildcard flag. Just because one small subset of bookmark custom keywords behaves differently doesn't mean that we should pull custom keywords out of the bookmarks interface when they are clearly a part of bookmarks. A custom keyword is a shortcut to a bookmark. Taking that out of bookmarks makes no sense at all.

Faux Pass wrote:Plus, I have to personally keep track of which keywords I've already used, which is very irritating.

View the "keyword" column in the bookmarks manager and it becomes a lot easier. Almost all of my bookmarks have custom keywords. I find it so much more convenient to type "ppp" in the addressbar to load the Phoenix project page than to type in "mozilla.org/projects/p" (which at that point becomes the top item in the autocomplete) or dig through my bookmarks folders to find the bookmark for that page. I find it much more convenient to type "dupes" to load up the bugzilla duplicates page than to type out the full URL or find it in my bookmarks. Custom keywords are shortcuts to bookmarks. If you can't remember your shortcuts then don't use them.

Faux Pass wrote:Making the CK's into bookmarks seems horribly kludgy. Let's just stick a simple table under Preferences somewhere. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

It's not cludgy at all. It's as simple as it can be. You want me to maintain two sets of bookmarks, one in bookmarks and one in preferences so that I can have shortcuts to my most commonly used bookmarks? That's just silly.

--Asa

rygy · Post by **rygy** » November 17th, 2002, 4:41 pm

So thats what the keywords do! I was wondering why they wouldn't turn up in searches when only the description fields would work. I was wondering if they hadn't been implemented yet but now know better - thank-you for the information asa

BTW - I use the 'bookmarking' abilities of phoenix extensively - not only to manage URL bookmarks but to look after some folders on my pc and all the data in those folders - out of curiosity, does anyone else do this? I have not heard it mentioned before. I really find it helpful to type any word in the search bar and all files and bookmarks that match the description pop-up - while the original file names remain unchanged. I guess now I can add keywords to launch some of the files I use very often directly from the addressbar - cool. 8) Maybe it would be hepful to have an option to be able to see keywords on the bookmarks sidebar then?

Cheers,
Ryan

abbaer · Post by **abbaer** » November 17th, 2002, 6:27 pm

I agree with both posters. The custom keyword and the wildcard flag are a very cool features (I use them both all the time) but interface-wise when you have a wildcard flag, it is odd to be able to choose the bookmark and get what is almost always a not very useful result.

One way to make a single custom keyword work with and without a wildcard flag would be to be able to specify a different URL when a wildcard is entered from when it isn't. That way if you have a parameter after the keyword, it knows what to do with it, and if you don't, then it knows what to do as well. This way, all entries would work as Bookmarks as well.

e.g.:

keyword: g (default) http://www.google.com
keyword: g (with parameter) http://www.google.com/search?&q=%s

Post by **tve** » November 17th, 2002, 6:41 pm

my wildcard bookmarks are stored in the Quick Searches folder so that it doesnt bother me at all..

Faux Pass · Post by **Faux Pass** » November 18th, 2002, 4:56 am

asa wrote:
Faux Pass wrote:(I.e., for clicking on) If I click on my "Google" Custom Keywords bookmark, I end up searching for the string %s on Google, which is useless.

You're not talking about custom keywords. You're talking about the combination of custom keywords and the URL wildcard flag.

(Smacks self) Damn. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that. Sorry-- you're right, I'm thinking of Keyword Searches.

Would you agree with the statement "Keyword Search Bookmarks cannot be used as bookmarks"?

(I.e., you can't click on 'em. That's how bookmarks are used, right?)

Just because one small subset of bookmark custom keywords behaves differently...

"Behaves differently"? They can't work like bookmarks!

...doesn't mean that we should pull custom keywords out of the bookmarks interface when they are clearly a part of bookmarks.

I agree: right now, they clearly are a part of bookmarks. I started this thread with the idea they don't have to be.

Faux Pass wrote:Plus, I have to personally keep track of which keywords I've already used, which is very irritating.

View the "keyword" column in the bookmarks manager and it becomes a lot easier.

Yeah, I'm going to open all of my folders and Sort by Keyword. That would take me about ten minutes of clicking.

Almost all of my bookmarks have custom keywords. I find it so much more convenient to type "ppp" in the addressbar to load the Phoenix project page than to type in "mozilla.org/projects/p" (which at that point becomes the top item in the autocomplete) or dig through my bookmarks folders to find the bookmark for that page. I find it much more convenient to type "dupes" to load up the bugzilla duplicates page than to type out the full URL or find it in my bookmarks. Custom keywords are shortcuts to bookmarks.

Asa, please. I am by no means attacking custom keywords. I love custom keywords. I think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, the bees knees, the dog's bollocks, the cat's meow as well as pajamas, and even da bomb.

If you can't remember your shortcuts then don't use them.

Meow!

Seriously, most of the time remembering my shortcuts isn't a problem-- when I think of a site, I remember the keyword. But thinking of a keyword rarely reminds me of the site. When I'm adding a keyword, I have to stop and think: Have I already used "p"? Or "i"? Or "ld"?

Two Legged Freak was all, like:
my wildcard bookmarks are stored in the Quick Searches folder so that it doesnt bother me at all..

TLF, I could kiss you. You're using the obvious work-around for the fact that KSes aren't "really bookmarks".

I have done exactly the same thing: I've put all my KSes in a separate subdirectory so that I don't click on them (thinking they'll take me to the site they're named after). I would guess most people do this absurd corralling. So my Amazon KS isn't in my shopping directory, my Bugzilla KS isn't in my Mozilla directory. Doesn't anyone else think this is silly?

Post by **tve** » November 18th, 2002, 5:55 am

Faux Pass wrote:Doesn't anyone else think this is silly?

no.. why? better then to put yet another menu in the prefs dialog, imo..

Faux Pass · Post by **Faux Pass** » November 18th, 2002, 6:22 am

two legged freak wrote:
Faux Pass wrote:Doesn't anyone else think this is silly?

no.. why?

Bookmarks are for clicking. It's simply the way they have always worked: you click on a bookmark to go to the site. Right?

Now we have a new type of bookmark. A KS bookmark looks exactly like a normal bookmark, but clicking on one actually results in an error!

better then to put yet another menu in the prefs dialog, imo..

You may very well be right. But if they are going to stay as bookmarks, we should at least do two things:

1. Make them unclickable.
2. Insist on uniquity: don't let a user use "a" as the keyword for both Amazon and Alltheweb.

juliusross · Post by **juliusross** » November 18th, 2002, 8:07 am

This has already been rejected at <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=178622> but I will try again.

Suggestion: when loading a bookmark which has a keyword and whose url contains a
'%s', but no search term is given by the user a page/message should be displayed
explaining how 'quick searches' work.

Faux Pass · Post by **Faux Pass** » November 18th, 2002, 8:29 am

juliusross wrote:Suggestion: when loading a bookmark which has a keyword and whose url contains a
'%s', but no search term is given by the user a page/message should be displayed
explaining how 'quick searches' work.

I agree that its present function is... not good. If a user can provoke an error by doing seemingly reasonable activities (i.e., clicking a bookmark) something needs fixing.

Your idea is definitely superior to an error, but I think anyone who's been putting "%s" in the URLs of their bookmark will know what they're doing, and therefore not have use for the help page.

What if clicking on a KS bookmark made a dialog pop up, prompting for input? That seems relatively elegant. Anyone like that idea? Asa?

Oh, hey, take a look at <a href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175419">175419</a>. Posted exactly one month ago, it states this solution more eloquently than I.

juliusross · Post by **juliusross** » November 18th, 2002, 10:36 am

>I think anyone who's been putting "%s" in the URLs of their bookmark will know what they're doing

This is not the case as Pheonix defaults with some 'quick searches'.

>What if clicking on a KS bookmark made a dialog pop up, prompting for input? That seems relatively elegant. Anyone like that idea?

Yes - that is better than a help page.