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Another default theme coming

Discuss application theming and theme development.
PhoenixNostalgia

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:17 am

nexx wrote:
yurk wrote: Mozilla is shipping with two themes (classic and modern), Firefox could do the very same thing with Qute and Pinstripe. The choice could be provided at installation time, as it would advertise more the feature.


Superb idea.


I agree. That would be a good thing the Mozilla team can do for somebody who worked hard to make their product look nice and familiar to thousands of people around the world. Ship it with Winstripe and Qute.

nrthomas
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:25 am

Based on what's in the source tree that'll be worth about 500Kb of uncompressed space, or 355kB compressed with normal zip (that's right for jars ?). That's a pretty serious erosion of the big step forward made in download size recently.

Mat
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:26 am

ok, but lets have a vote witch should be the default theme.

(most people never change anything unless someone tells them to do this; most XP installations i've seen still have the same background Picture and the same (ugly) blue default theme and they where quite surprised, when i told them, that they can change this if they want)
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wintogreen
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:26 am

yurk wrote:On a totally unrelated note, Mozilla is shipping with two themes (classic and modern), Firefox could do the very same thing with Qute and Pinstripe. The choice could be provided at installation time, as it would advertise more the feature.

I also think this is an excellent idea. One of the greatest things about Firefox is that it is so user-customizable, from toolbars to themes to extensions to "hidden" preferences. Making two themes available with the download is an easy way to let new users get a feel for this customizability, and it would underscore the claim that Firefox is "all about YOU."

PhoenixNostalgia

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:27 am

Crap, ur right...

Oh well. Sorry Arvid. Guess we gotta let Winstripe grow on us. I have real doubts that this will get any better than what we have seen. Making a mac-like skin for Windows and Linux is just...weird.

This really was the best theme we could have had for Firefox and well, the team is going to have to take a hit for changing it. They will learn the hard way, and by Firefox 2.0, they will release a whole new default theme that will look a lot like Qute and try to win more of a user base. I really don't get this move on their part. Lots of people already use Firefox. 1.0 isnt gonna bring many more users than it already has unless 1.0 has a big plan along with it to spread the word more than ever. Too bad those people will say:"hmmm, why does this look so 90's? Isn't this new?" Oh well. Gotta learn the hard way.
Last edited by PhoenixNostalgia on June 6th, 2004, 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

iamnotniles
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:28 am

Oh I like that, didn't Opera used to ask what theme you wanted on startup?

Right, my honest opinion.

I love the new version of Qute that's in the nightlies. The only quibble I have is with the throbber which, although nice, should be a firefox logo one (although it looks great in the tabs). This new theme however looks like "shareware heaven." Firefox/Mozilla look like professional programs with their current themes, Qute fits wonderfullyinto XP and looks pleasant on 9x too. The new one simply will not.

Consistency between platforms is all well and good but the three platforms are *not* the same and this should be recognised. If this is a concern then why was the Mac version allowed to move Options to Edit, Preferences? Each version of firefox should fit in with it's operating system, they shouldn't all look like a Mac style program.

And as for the email arguement, boohoo, don't throw your toys out of the pram. I'm sorry but that's my opinion on that.

pzesar

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:33 am

it's not only arvid that thinks of mozilla as arrogant in this point. but that's what mozilla is most famous for (besides of offering a very great browser): making changes without preparing the community which the latter simply have to swallow. yeah right - maybe this was necessary when changing from bird to fox - but in this case there are really no reasons i can think of for keeping the theme change in a hidden bug and so on...
it's just like bengoodger once stated: "mozilla is not a democracy" or likewise, i don't remember the location or the exact words... but i like democracies. there are a few things that HAVE to be decided, yeah. but changing the default theme is one of those who really NEED to be discussed with AS MUCH people involved as possible to get the best out of it. the look of the browser is after all a KEY FACTOR for the decision of a new user on using/throwing away firefox - if not the most important.
i'm praying for them to reconsider, but i know it's energy sacrificed in vain :(

i don't know how "final" the version of "winstripe" I've seen is, but if it was anywhere NEAR final it's going to be a mess, and a huge step backwards in the way firefox appeals to new users.

arvid, i really encourage you to keep offering qute - compared to winstripe i would even pay for it ;-) no offence to the designers of winstripe, but ... arvid's done a better job... really...

TheOneKEA

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:44 am

I just want to know if there will be a "Linstripe" theme for Linux builds.
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nrthomas
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:46 am

It's called gnomestripe apparently. <a href="http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsquery.cgi?treeid=default&module=AviaryBranchTinderbox&branch=.*AVIARY.*%7C.*1.7.*&branchtype=regexp&dir=&file=&filetype=match&who=&whotype=match&sortby=Date&hours=2&date=day&mindate=&maxdate=&cvsroot=%2Fcvsroot">bonsai</a>

Sailfish
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:51 am

While the miscommunications between the two parties was unfortuneate, I really don't have a problem with this decision, personally. While I'm not privy to the licensing arrangement, it doesn't appear like mozilla.org made a commitment to keep Qute for any specified period of time. If Arvid had that expectation, he should have required it be included in the original license negotiations.

I do, however, have a concern regarding mozilla.org being able to establish an identity. The name has gone from Phoenix to Firebird and now Firefox. The default theme has gone from an orbit to Qute to Qute II to now Winstripe. Sure, the product hasn't reach 1.0 yet but honestly, its been hyped and promoted quite heavily over the years with each incarnation.

One can only hope that both sides this time have a clear and mutually-acceptable understanding so that we won't be seeing some time in the next 6 months yet another default theme change.

peterlairo

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:51 am

chrisgeleven wrote:Pinstripe screenshots: http://kmgerich.com/archive/000049.html

Looks perfect on OS X, but does not fit with Windows at all like Qute does.


Mainly black & white and angular icon graphics on the main toolbar. UGLY! BORING!

What is particularly disturbing is the (repeated) breakdown in communication. I have been following and helping out mozilla since 1999. I too have been getting an increased sense of arrogance and elitism from mozilla.org. :(

I hope it's just a phase or normal "growing pains".
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Jeff_pony
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 2:57 am

Another option would be to have Winstripe as the release build theme and Qute as the nightlys theme. Keeps us geeks happy whilst the rest of the world knows no different. Also if 2 themes were packaged which would be default?
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PhoenixNostalgia

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 3:00 am

Jeff_pony wrote:Another option would be to have Winstripe as the release build theme and Qute as the nightlys theme. Keeps us geeks happy whilst the rest of the world knows no different. Also if 2 themes were packaged which would be default?


Thought bout it and it just won't happen. Too much animosity between the two parties. I'm sure the Mozilla team will dissolve all ties with Arvid soon enough and just let him be an addition to update.mozilla.org just like everybody else.

MistFox

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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 4:04 am

this new theme SUCKS.
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lordmedikit
 
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Post Posted June 6th, 2004, 4:22 am

My constructive criticism is that I will refuse to upgrade to any new version until I can have the new version of Qute installed, which was actually one of the reasons I was really looking forward to the new version.

Qute was a nice theme that actually fitted in with the standard look of Windows very well, to the extent that many lay users would not know the difference, at first glance, between the Firefox interface and the IE one. Now, obviously Firefox is about choice, but a lot of first time users will, at first want a browser that works, before they go looking for themes and extensions later on. Having a ugly? and very different theme will just confuse and turn off new users in my opinion.

Firefox was one of the few OS projects that actually got UI right and this seems a big step backwards. However, it is of course the prerogative of Ben to make such authoritarian decisions if he feels they will benefit the project. I would be interested though, whether or not the possibility of getting Qute licensed under his terms was actually fully explored.
Last edited by lordmedikit on June 6th, 2004, 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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