Another default theme coming

TychoQuad · Post by **TychoQuad** » June 6th, 2004, 5:44 am

I'd just like to say all these "It looks horrible" comments are totally invalid until someone can give us a "in browser" screenshot.

A collection of icons is not by any means a good judge of a good theme. Browser skinning also involves the widgets, toolbars and menus. Although i'ts unlikely they will be anything far from windows XP default, it is still totally unfair to judge Winstripe at this stage.

MORA · Post by **MORA** » June 6th, 2004, 5:45 am

Here's my constructive feedback: Ben, I think this is the biggest mistake you could possibly make! Please stop this nonsense and sort out this issue in a professional manner. You are right that Arvid shouldn't have posted a private e-mail, and it seems Arvid is right that the Mozilla developers should have clarified their position much earlier; in time for a sensible solution to be reached. From the looks of it, Arvid's position on the licensing issue is not as rigid as you seem to assume. And anyhow: starting development of a new default theme without proper consulting with the author of the old one is really an incredible waste of time and effort.

So PLEASE start talking again to Arvid, find a way to deal with the licensing issues, and don't throw away the child with the bath-water (as we say in the Netherlands). I agree with others that Qute should at least remain available as alternative theme, but I think you will attract much more users if it remains the default. Personally, judging from the screenshots shown so far, I don't like the new theme at all. I am pretty sure this going to put off a lot of potential Firefox users, especially if the next Firefox is going to be released with a half-finished theme that still needs lots of polish (unlike the Qute theme it is about to replace).

Ben, I really hope you will reconsider this.

marc00s · Post by **marc00s** » June 6th, 2004, 5:45 am

The Qute theme in its newest version (e.g. from Firefox-trunk nightlies) looks great in Windows and Gnome/Linux. That's a fact. Pinstripe may be ok for OS X, but not for Windows nor Gnome.

What we were shown in this thread doesn't look too good. Maybe if I could see the whole window of Firefox with these new icons, I would change my mind.

These new icons just look as if they were taken from Netscape 4.x classic theme (or another 1996 app) and colorized. Also, the colors used in these are too flashy, Qute looks a lot calmer and does not distract the user from the webpages.

Please, let the Qute theme remain the default.

johnleemk · Post by **johnleemk** » June 6th, 2004, 5:46 am

TychoQuad wrote:I don't care what Firefox comes with, I will check out the new theme, give it a good chance, and if need be, get Qute from update.mozilla.org.

I think one thing everyone has missed here, is that regardless of whether the new theme is better, or worse, regardless if the new theme/extension/download manager is an improvement or not, regardless of if Phoenix, Firebird or Firefox is the right choice in name, Regardless if the Mozilla style prefrences manager was more useful or not, PEOPLE WILL TALK ABOUT IT!

It wouldn't surprise me at all if these changes were inspired by the fuss it would cause. People talk, people argue, people post slashdot articles, and uninformed people read those articles and ask their friends what the hell they are complaining about.

There's a saying, "All news is good news" It basically means that talk on a product is promoting it, good or bad. We've seen this happen over and over with Mozilla's FireWhatever, and regardless of what people think now, in 6 months time, noones really going to care.

I agree. This whole thing will blow over eventually (I hope). I wasn't completely surprised because I had heard some rumblings in 2003 about Qute not being open-source/free, and so I wasn't surprised when this appeared. I'm not particularly attached to Qute, and I don't think the Winstripe theme is too bad (although perhaps a little worser than Qute). It's still a work in progress, though, so let's see what happens next.

LayZ · Post by **LayZ** » June 6th, 2004, 5:51 am

TychoQuad wrote:I'd just like to say all these "It looks horrible" comments are totally invalid until someone can give us a "in browser" screenshot.

A collection of icons is not by any means a good judge of a good theme. Browser skinning also involves the widgets, toolbars and menus. Although i'ts unlikely they will be anything far from windows XP default, it is still totally unfair to judge Winstripe at this stage.

No doubt this theme will still pick the widget styling from the OS, so if you have WindowsXP in the default theme you'll get all the XP looking scrollbars, buttons, etc and if you're using Win2k or older or have XP in windows classic look you'll have the old plain grey buttons, scrollbars, etc.

Personally I'd like a Windows XP theme halfway between the two, with the sane titlebar and taskbars of Win2k and the nicer looking widgets of lunar. But I've never looked into Windows XP themeing as it didn't bother me that much.

and to be fair, this doesn't bother me personally at all, just worried that it might affect adoption of Firefox, I didn't care one bit about the adoption rate of WinXP

slang123 · Post by **slang123** » June 6th, 2004, 5:54 am

I personally think that including both skins would be brilliant. This is a bigger issue than size imo. The classic winstripe theme as default and qute as the modern theme. This would Illistrate to new comers how themable the app is, and interest them in new themes. I think the current winstripe is awful, but im willing to give it a chance as its only in its early stages, whats more important is that this conflict between the developers, theme author, and us as a comunity is resolved quickly

gids · Post by **gids** » June 6th, 2004, 5:56 am

Mat wrote:lets have a vote

You're forgetting that Phoenix/Firebird/fox never was a democracy, the developer's word is final and...that's it!

It'll be interesting to see if, for example a strong reaction from the blogging community can sway the developers at all, or if they will wait for the storm to blow over as they've done with other contraversies

DWright · Post by **DWright** » June 6th, 2004, 6:03 am

It's not just that not everyone has XP - I use the 'Silver' XP theme, and hate anything that thinks I have a blue titlebar - Luna != XP

TychoQuad · Post by **TychoQuad** » June 6th, 2004, 6:13 am

DWright wrote:It's not just that not everyone has XP - I use the 'Silver' XP theme, and hate anything that thinks I have a blue titlebar - Luna != XP

Oh get over it, It's a static icon! You think anyone is going to go to all the trouble to make "auto redraw" icons which match your titlebar? What about users with hacked uxtheme.dll skins, or Windowblinds skins?

I'm going overboard here, but what i'm saying is that I don't think anyone's going to care that much. They could have given you the mac icon you know!

Post by **kstahl** » June 6th, 2004, 6:16 am

e-Gandalf wrote:ben: you find us not constructive? We want Quote, we don't like the new theme. We find it ugly. We're afraid that Firefox with such theme will not be attractive for potential users.

I'm just curious, who are these "we" you speak of? "You" want Qute, "you" don't like the new theme, "you" find it ugly. Personally, I like Qute too, but I'll wait and see how the new theme looks in the browser before passing judgement, and I certainly will not expect "everyone" to feel as I do. Qute is a very nice and smooth theme, but it's not the second coming of christ or something.

marc00s · Post by **marc00s** » June 6th, 2004, 6:26 am

kstahl: In this case, "we" = "the majority of the Firefox users posting in this thread".

ekettunen · Post by **ekettunen** » June 6th, 2004, 6:31 am

Personally, I don't care if the default theme will be changed. I think that all members of this forum are clever enough to use the theme they want to. So it's not a problem. I think it'll be an issue to mainstream user who doesn't necessarily know how to change the theme.

As someone stated above, 95% of all users just unzip/install the browser and use it. I hope people won't be too confused about the theme change.

Just my two cents...

wintogreen · Post by **wintogreen** » June 6th, 2004, 6:33 am

e-Gandalf wrote:What is a community for Firefox producers? Anything more than "bug trackers"?

Hmm....

. · Post by . » June 6th, 2004, 7:02 am

you have hit slashdot

there go the forums

groov · Post by **groov** » June 6th, 2004, 7:05 am

I don't want to step on anyones toes here but I am happy to see Qute go. The theme must be changed before 1.0 and I feel Pinstripe is a very good alternative.

Another default theme coming

Re: Another default theme coming