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Another default theme coming

Discuss application theming and theme development.
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:17 pm

hao2lian wrote:You don't have to download a recent nightly to get the theme...

Its not that theme that I will be testing. I can always change a theme to my liking. Its the nightly that I intend to test for bugs as I have been doing.

tve
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:21 pm

Me thinks a lot of people in this thread lied during registration at the "I'm older than 13" question.

Could you kids please stop wasting MZ's bandwidth? Or at least try to inform yourself before hitting the Submit button? Really, the new theme is not a disgrace to Firefox, but people like seen here in this topic are.

A few pages ago, a developer of the Winstripe theme said it's not even 0.1 yet.

And this was Qute 0.1:
http://www.quadrone.org/projects/mozill ... ute0.1.png

R A F

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:24 pm

Most beautiful drop-markers I've ever seen.

sasquatch
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:37 pm

R A F wrote:Most beautiful drop-markers I've ever seen.


What's a drop-marker?

gumpish
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:40 pm

wget wrote:Exactly! The argument that the first experience counts for new users won't be solved by offering an obscure, 3rd party repack.

Incorrect. If evangelists have access to a repack that will give new IE refugees the Qute experience immediately upon installation, they will be more likely to stick with the browser and thus learn its other merits. Then when they get a new version, if the see whatever theme the all-knowing, all-benevolent Mozilla Foundation has decreed is The Best and they don't like it, ONLY THEN - AFTER they know the browser - will they be willing to learn how to change the theme back to Qute.

A 3rd party repack does have a reason to exist if 0.9+ ships without Qute.


Non-Evangelists wrote:It's just a theme for crying out loud.

Ah, yes, I see you don't have much contact with the average spyware-infested IE user. If you did you would understand how ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL the default theme is. (Edit: I wonder how much evangelizing the decision-makers do...)

Yes, there are people who would rather use a program that is unstable or insecure over one that they think doesn't look as nice.

Are these people computer-savvy? No.

Should these people even be using computers? Maybe not.

Aren't these the kind of people who got owned by ILOVEYOU and Beagle? Yep.

Nevertheless, these people are worth saving! By opening their minds to an alternative to Microsoft they may become better educated about computing in general.

If your position is that the default theme is not important, then you must also believe that it is not important to win new users to this browser, so you ultimately believe that this browser does not need users.

Now then, yes, Firefox would still be a darn nice browser if the only users were the devs. But this effort can't be about building a nice browser for a handful of people...

Firefox has tremendous potential to change the face of the web - to save millions of people from the garbage heap that is Internet Explorer. If you don't think these are good goals to have, then fine. Good for you. But for the EVANGELISTS out there on the street, trying to make a difference, this matter of changing the default theme to something that is such a departure from XP is nothing to be sneezed at.

So please, stop telling us to calm down when you can't understand why we're upset.
Last edited by gumpish on June 7th, 2004, 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BenBasson
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:42 pm

tve, thank you for arguably one of the most sensible posts in this entire thread.

Could you people please grow up or at least learn how to convey your opinion without sounding like a spoilt kid who got grounded? Unless you can actually help this theme become better or improve it yourself (since the whole point of the theme change was to allow this, AFAIK) then you really have no business replying to this. The change has been made and it's extremely doubtful that this change will be reversed.

Personally, I'd like to see Arvid contributing to this theme if he's willing. It's a shame to see Qute go as the default, but the new theme will probably be just as good when it's a bit more polished. tve's point about Qute 0.1 illustrates matters entirely, and for what it's worth, I think the new default looks a whole lot better than Qute 0.1 did.

steppenwulf241

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:44 pm

tve wrote:...Could you kids please stop wasting MZ's bandwidth? Or at least try to inform yourself before hitting the Submit button? Really, the new theme is not a disgrace to Firefox, but people like seen here in this topic are.

A few pages ago, a developer of the Winstripe theme said it's not even 0.1 yet.


Good point. :-) I've even noticed that there are a few things, such as Tools->Extensions that seem to be better/more thuroughly themed than Qute. But... one problem with the new theme, as you have so poignantly noted above, is that it is - in essence - 0.1alpha build. This is a rather critical juncture to be plopping in such - wouldn't you think?

slang123
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:46 pm

I second that, the default theme is criticle in winning users. The more users firefox has, the more websites will have to be standards compliant. Qute really hit the nail on the head for this, im just hoping winstripe can do the same. However as it stands, it doesnt fit in with the windows guidelines (or feel) at all and it will have to be a complete redesign if it wants to.

tmeader
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:52 pm

I think the reason that some, myself included, are telling others to calm down, is that everyone is getting worked up over something that is completely subjective. Fine, you don't think this is anywhere near the calibar of Qute... guess what... I do. And there are others who agree with me. Now, I'm sure you will call me "blind" or a "moron" or whatever other term you want to use to express your disbelief of not sharing YOUR SUBJECTIVE view of the matter.

I CAN understand why you're upset, but I CAN'T understand your hatred of this theme.

So, please, stop telling me to stop telling people to calm down when you can't understand that simple concept that not EVERYONE thinks it "sucks".

Whether or not any theme is "pretty" or "good" is a TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE matter for each and every person. People throw around statements like "the fact is that this just isn't as good".... no, wrong... YOUR opinion is that it isn't as good.

My brother WAS a spyware infested IE user... but I switched him to the SUITE. Yes... the Suite. Not every IE user is so stupid that they only like "the pretty pictures".

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:53 pm

steppenwulf241 , I couldn't agree more about the timing of this change being FAR too late in the game, even though I think it will work out fine in the end.

BenBasson
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:55 pm

It would have been better to make this change between 0.9 and 1.0, but nevermind. It's done, we can debate that forever and it'll change nothing. Obviously the default theme is important, but the 0.9 milestone is going to be missing plenty of polish on many things, of which the theme is only one. If the theme isn't up to scratch by 1.0, I'll be more concerned than I am now.
Last edited by BenBasson on June 7th, 2004, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tve
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 3:55 pm

sasquatch wrote:
R A F wrote:Most beautiful drop-markers I've ever seen.


What's a drop-marker?

The little arrows on the back and forward buttons.
But... one problem with the new theme, as you have so poignantly noted above, is that it is - in essence - 0.1alpha build. This is a rather critical juncture to be plopping in such - wouldn't you think?

Well, I would agree, but I would also think Ben knows better. He got flamed for every big change, but in the end he always seems to be right. So I think it's also safe to trust him on this one. ;) 0.9 will be a beta build. 1.0 is what matters. And the theme will undoubtedly improve a lot until then. And looking at Kevin's other works I'm quite sure you won't see anybody complaing about Winstripe in a month.

slang123
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 4:00 pm

where can i see kevins other works?

wget

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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 4:07 pm

gumpish wrote:
wget wrote:Exactly! The argument that the first experience counts for new users won't be solved by offering an obscure, 3rd party repack.

Incorrect. If evangelists have access to a repack that will give new IE refugees the Qute experience immediately upon installation, they will be more likely to stick with the browser and thus learn its other merits.

Perhaps I phrased this oddly, but I know full well how important the default configuration is.

The repack won't be linked and promoted by Mozilla.org as it isn't an official product. This means that it's dead in the water from the get-go as it won't be able to reach its intended audience; the beginners who (according to some) are better fit with Qute than Winstripe. It's far from everyone who'll have a friendly nerd at hand to help them find, install and configure an esoteric repack.

gumpish wrote:A 3rd party repack does have a reason to exist if 0.9+ ships without Qute.

Why not simply install the stand-alone Qute theme? Anyway, create your fringe repack if you want to. I want stop you. I'm just saying that you'll waste your time.
Last edited by wget on June 7th, 2004, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tmeader
 
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Post Posted June 7th, 2004, 4:07 pm

He did the pinstripe theme for both Mac OS Firefox and Thunderbird. Give him a LITTLE time to get rid of the OS X shadowing and make it a little more XPish before making a judgement... this is afterall a self admitted 0.1 release.

But as you can see from (especially the Thunderbird theme) he has talent.. it just needs to be focused to be a little more "Windows" centric in the next few weeks.

http://kmgerich.com/

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