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Yet Another Image Format: Google's "WebP"

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patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted October 6th, 2010, 1:15 pm

Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop will both save or export files to dozens and dozens of formats not supported by any web browser. I really don't get why a web browser should support a format that you can't save images into yet. The cart isn't just before the horse, the cart got it's own motor and ran over the horse.
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bat999

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Post Posted October 6th, 2010, 3:47 pm

The pre-compiled binary webpconv program is only for 64 bit Linux.
I've compiled the 32 bit version.
It's not difficult, the instructions are on the website
here:- http://code.google.com/speed/webp/download.html
It runs OK on Ubuntu Karmic. 8-)

Gusar
 
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Post Posted October 6th, 2010, 4:43 pm

maxst wrote:People wouldn't be looking for JPEG alternatives then

Are they? Wasn't really my impression. I mean, if they did, JPEG XR would be gaining traction.
The thing is, for lossless there's PNG, and for lossy jpeg at low compression (quality 85-90) produces a pic without visible artifacts and seems to be small enough for people. Maybe I'm wrong, it's just my impression. Maybe there are other reasons why no new format gained traction, ubiquity of jpeg, inertia, people don't know about JPEG XR (to be honest, I didn't either until this webp thing started), something.

patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted October 6th, 2010, 4:53 pm

The worst problem as I see it isn't even individuals. It's websites that force horrible levels of compression for JPG's, or convert PNG's to JPG's and then do horrible levels of compression, or resize your image and use monstrously terrible resizing computation. MySpace and Facebook are probably the two biggest offenders but I'm sure there are MANY other services that trash image quality for the sake of bandwidth and storage.
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maxst
 
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Post Posted October 6th, 2010, 10:52 pm

Gusar wrote:Are they? Wasn't really my impression. I mean, if they did, JPEG XR would be gaining traction.


In some special cases, JPEG alternatives are used in real projects. For example, NASA lets you download very hi-resolution images from Mars only as .jp2 files. Apparently they need some of JPEG 2000 features that are not available in regular JPEG.

And JPEG with alpha channel is every webmaster's dream. People are still bitter that Firefox lost JNG support.

Omega X

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Post Posted October 7th, 2010, 6:11 pm

patrickjdempsey wrote:Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop will both save or export files to dozens and dozens of formats not supported by any web browser. I really don't get why a web browser should support a format that you can't save images into yet. The cart isn't just before the horse, the cart got it's own motor and ran over the horse.


I don't know about PSP, but Photoshop will accept plugins to save in new formats.
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patrickjdempsey

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Post Posted October 7th, 2010, 7:24 pm

I know I'm using a Ps plugin to export PNG files from PSP, but I'm not sure if my antiquated version (that I need for vector graphics) will be compatible with newer plugins.
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maxst
 
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Post Posted October 7th, 2010, 10:28 pm

Google told me the red pixelization problem can be fixed, they promised better chroma upsampling in the decoder:

http://code.google.com/p/webp/issues/detail?id=14#c0

bat999

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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 4:30 am

Hi
It's possible to display a webp image by making it into a 1-frame webm video.
So the image displays OK with Firefox-4 but doesn't display with Firefox-3.6.9.
A demo is here:- http://antimatter15.github.com/weppy/demo.html

Frenzie

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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 4:54 am

bat999 wrote:Hi
It's possible to display a webp image by making it into a 1-frame webm video.
So the image displays OK with Firefox-4 but doesn't display with Firefox-3.6.9.
A demo is here:- http://antimatter15.github.com/weppy/demo.html

Isn't the whole rendering it to canvas part a bit redundant? If you skip the canvas part altogether and only put the 1 frame video in the page it works in Opera, and it also seems to improve Chromium stability. Of course it's interesting in regard to fixing canvas bugs, but otherwise it just seems needlessly complex to me. Anyway, nice concept and execution. :D
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bat999

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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 5:13 am

Hi Frenzie
It's not my demo. :D
I expect the guy would appreciate your comments though. :)
Here:-http://antimatter15.com/wp/

Frenzie

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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 5:21 am

bat999 wrote:Hi Frenzie
It's not my demo. :D
I expect the guy would appreciate your comments though. :)
Here:-http://antimatter15.com/wp/

I took care of that already. :)
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Frenzie

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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 8:37 am

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/to ... ?id=761682

I figured I'd make it into a userscript. Should work in Opera 10.6x+ and Firefox 4 trunk builds (with an appropriate version of GM).
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patermann
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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 8:58 am

One of the reasons that people started looking at alternatives to JPEG format was the uncertain patent situation. Although I believe that all patents connected with the JPEG format have been invalidated, it still leaves a legacy of uncertainty that hasn't faded completely. It was, of course, similar issues with Unisys and the GIF format that led to MNG/PNG being developed.

Given that, the apparent lack of enthusiasm for JPEG XR may be connected with the fact that it was formerly called "Windows Media Photo" and is "based on technology originally developed and patented by Microsoft" (Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XR ). It says in the section on Licensing that Microsoft have stated that they will not file suit on the patented technology but, as long as Microsoft hold the patents, they can easily change their mind if use of the format became widespread. Also interesting is that the license for their "HD Photo Device Porting Kit" (JPEG XR was also called HD Photo at one time) specifically prohibits use of the code in any software that uses strong copyleft licensing such as the GPL. There are plenty of graphics formats to choose from so I have to wonder why anyone would risk using this one?

patermann
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maxst
 
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Post Posted October 8th, 2010, 9:38 am

patermann wrote:One of the reasons that people started looking at alternatives to JPEG format was the uncertain patent situation.


No, it's because of JPEG artifacts.

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