Proposal to change distribution format

[Old Unghost]

Is it would be better to distribute TB in more modern archive format, then ZIP?
I know, that ZIP format is widespread distribution format, but it's compression
not very good nowadays.
As TB builds appear very frequently, and many people are eager
to test them, it would be better to make TB distro size as little as possible.
There many formats, with compression better, then ZIP,
for example 7-ZIP format.
It's features:
1. It's free (under GPL license).
2. It's compression is very good (better then RAR or ACE).

I just tested and got the following results:
TB (build 20030625) ZIP archive - 8,9 Mb.
TB (build 20030625) 7-ZIP SFX archive - 6,4 Mb.

Sorry for my bad English.

[RAF]

There are threads about this concerning Firebird in those forums. From what I remember, it wasn't all that simple.

[shadytrees]

There are threads about this concerning Firebird in those forums. From what I remember, it wasn't all that simple.

Two reasons why not:
1. People seems to want bugs fixed instead of compressing to decrease size. This to me is a bad argument. Since bugs aren't being fixed, let's compress, shall we?
2. Afraid of non-accessibility. Solution: self-extracting 7-zips.

[Old Unghost]

There are many complaints all across the forum that TB and FB are overbloated; with any new release all the people are shouting - great, they manage to throw away another 100 kb of code, but nobody
cared to do very simple thing - choose another archive format, and throw away about 2 Mb to download.
I can see only one reason - nobody at forum really cares.
As I notice, most part of forum users are from USA and Europe. Of course they have dedicated lines, DSL or optic. They don't really care to download 5 10 or 20 Mb.
But I am quite sure, that many other users cares. Lost users. Just imagine one user cross over
TB. First impression - Wow, new mail client; under GPL license; What - NINE Mb to download; are They crazy, I better stay with my current.
For them size matters. They don't have DSL - they are modem users.
Right now I see no reason to stay with ZIP format, and no reason not to use 7-ZIP format.

I'm really sorry if someone consider this post offensive. I don't mean to offence anyone.

[michal017]

I agree..
And also I am sure Linux users would prefer bzip2 instead of gzip. I don't have DSL either
m.

[shadytrees]

I used to have a 56K connection. Took me an about 50 minutes to download Firebird. I know what it feels like. Awful.

[nth10sd]

A 5.89mb Thunderbird installer is available for download. I will try and update it as long as new builds are out. I hope this benefits 56k-ers like u all. Btw, the original size of thunderbird was around 9mb. That's around a 35% cut!

Check it out <a href="http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=14046">here</a>.

[Old Unghost]

Thank you for your installer. It's looks very good. However newbies usually look at size of official distro. I don't think they can manage to find you installer from start. So that automatically reduce amount of TB users, cause people think - there are no good mail program to weight 9 Mb.
One thing, I can't understand, why Mozilla community still hanging with so outdated and obsolete format that ZIP. May be they are more concerned with *nix users, not with Windows. They think - if you could buy Windows - you could buy leased line .
Anyway, I don't know how this proposal could be solved. Could I report this at Bugzilla?
One more: I'd like to put my post at Firebird general forum, cause it has same trouble.
It could make Opera users shut up long ago, if they had changed distro format. But double - posting is against forum rules? Am I right??

P. S. Have found one article about future of ZIP format - http://www.idg.net/ic_1321254_9677_1-5043.html

[GolfProRM]

Okay... so if you go to the 7-zip format, it has to be a self-executable. Otherwise people have to download a separate program just to install TB, and even less people will do this! Nearly every Windows user has some sort of "unzip" program, but I'd never heard of 7-zip until I got to this forum.

Besides, when talking about Tbird, we're talking about a pre-alpha program! I wouldn't be worried too much about the end-user until it gets quite a bit further along in the development process. We've all seen what happens to the message board when a bunch of new users start asking questions, and personally, I don't think we need a larger "testing group."

When T-bird gets to 0.5-0.6 and is much more end user friendly, then I'd start worrying about compression.

Just my opinion.

[tve]

When T-bird gets to 0.5-0.6 and is much more end user friendly, then I'd start worrying about compression.

Nah. But when Mozilla gets to 1.5 final. :)

[Old Unghost]

Okay... so if you go to the 7-zip format, it has to be a self-executable. Otherwise people have to download a separate program just to install TB, and even less people will do this! Nearly every Windows user has some sort of "unzip" program, but I'd never heard of 7-zip until I got to this forum.

In my first post I compared 7-ZIP self-executable archive and downloaded ZIP archive. I quite agree that EXE file should be distributed. About 7-ZIP - it's one of most popular free archiver programs, that has great compression ratio. Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/sevenzip

Besides, when talking about Tbird, we're talking about a pre-alpha program! I wouldn't be worried too much about the end-user until it gets quite a bit further along in the development process. We've all seen what happens to the message board when a bunch of new users start asking questions, and personally, I don't think we need a larger "testing group."

When T-bird gets to 0.5-0.6 and is much more end user friendly, then I'd start worrying about compression.

Just my opinion.

There are a lot of users (and myself) that using that "pre-alpha" program in real life, working (not playing) with it, feeling great. About bunch of new users - are this program making for people or for chosed ones. That new users is catching bugs, propose new features and so on. If you don't want to answer their questions, there are many people want to.
About 0.5 - 0.6 release - do you know when it could be released? How much time Mozilla come to 1.0 Release. One more - to make 0.5 release possible - many users should test TB. Smaller TB could be - more users could test it - sooner release could be.
Last more - I think TB is very user friendly right now.

[nth10sd]

In my first post I compared 7-ZIP self-executable archive and downloaded ZIP archive. I quite agree that EXE file should be distributed.

I was just wondering, was it my 7-zip self-executable archive (installer) that you downloaded? 'Cause mine is only 5.88mb (Build 20030625), as opposed to ur 6.4mb. U shld try using my installer, found <a href="http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=14046">here</a>, in case u are a 56k user. It shaves an additional 500kb to download.

Food for thought.

[Old Unghost]

I was just wondering, was it my 7-zip self-executable archive (installer) that you downloaded? 'Cause mine is only 5.88mb (Build 20030625), as opposed to ur 6.4mb. U shld try using my installer, found <a href="http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=14046">here</a>, in case u are a 56k user. It shaves an additional 500kb to download.

Food for thought.

No, I just unpack distribution ZIP file and packed 7Zip myself. Used latest 7z 2.30b32, but I don' play with command line switches (just used maximum compression and solid archive) and my PC isn't lastest high end (just Duron 1100/256Mb/40Gb) (not all Russians are filthy rich bandits ). That's why your distro is smaller. I began this article just to show than TB distro could be made much smaller very easy, but it seems noone too cares about it. Anyway TB is alpha now. Will be wait for installer.

[nth10sd]

No, I just unpack distribution ZIP file and packed 7Zip myself. Used latest 7z 2.30b32, but I don' play with command line switches (just used maximum compression and solid archive) and my PC isn't lastest high end (just Duron 1100/256Mb/40Gb)

I did play around with the command line switches, but my PC specs are around the same as yours, i don't think that matters. (Athlon 850/384mb/40Gb)

I, however, do agree that the distribution size is way too big, maybe it wasn't meant for 56k-ers in mind at all?

[Old Unghost]

Maybe it wasn't meant for 56k-ers in mind at all?

Yes , I think so.
Anyway, thanks for your distro. Keep updating it. I'll take a look at it reguraly.

P. S. Lycos mirror - terrible speed. Geocities is much better.

P.P.S. My download manager tells that Geocities is not supporting resuming broken download. If this is true - not very good for 56k users.