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Discussion of general topics about Mozilla Firefox
Hendikins

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 6:52 am

I've currently suspended work on PluginDoc, pending resolution of (mostly petty political) issues with Mozilla Update.

I may cease work on PluginDoc, or even remove it entirely, if a satisfactory solution to the problems with Mozilla Update is not reached.

My goodwill and patience with the Mozilla Foundation are stretched to breaking point, due to petty politics, and the apparent "Market Firefox at all costs" attitude that seems to have taken root. This isn't the project I started looking at in 1999.

I do not wish for any inconvenience to users, however, I think certain parties need a reality check.

I'll post a follow-up if a. I kill off PluginDoc, and b. the post survives.

Edit: Title change. Text unchanged.
Last edited by Hendikins on December 30th, 2004, 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

michaell
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 9:06 am

The petty political issues are never going to go away. Increasing Firefox market share as the primary goal also probably isn't going to change (on the plus side, they/we do actually appear to be being reasonably successful with that goal...) You're obviously not happy with that and haven't been for some time, so why not save yourself the aggravation and work on the basis that the issues (or some similar issues) will be ongoing.

Killing it seems a bit overly dramatic (and incompatible with not wanting to inconvenience users) - just stop maintaining it, or make it Seamonkey-focused or hand it over to someone else (if anyone else would take it on), or something...

Just a general comment from my viewpoint - obviously I don't know the specifics of the current petty political issues...

TheOneKEA

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 11:07 am

Are you willing to discuss the so-called "petty issues"? Or must we all endure the loss of a highly useful collection of information without any particular reason as to its demise?
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Hendikins

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 11:36 am

Attempting to get a solution. I might not be a happy camper, but a tactical nuke would really be a last resort.

smkatz
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 1:13 pm

I for one appreciate an authoritative reference for Plugin problems. As I recall, Mozilla Firefox in the earliest betas (when it was called Phoenix) put a link to PluginDoc on the links bar. Would its return help heal this rift?

Ideally, we should link to PluginDoc for common plugins like Acrobat from the about:plugins page.

Would you be willing to make PluginDoc available under the GFDL (GNU Free Documentation License).. it seems incompatible with the spirit of open source to shut it down.

Have you looked at the Linspire Internet suite? It is still being developed, and maintained. You can contact kevin@domain.com for assistance. They may be willing to host PluginDoc, as they have for countless other websites.

If you would tell us why you are bothered.. we can avoid having to guess.

--Sam

johann_p

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 2:04 pm

TheOneKEA wrote:Are you willing to discuss the so-called "petty issues"? Or must we all endure the loss of a highly useful collection of information without any particular reason as to its demise?


I agree with that. Just telling us that there are "issues" leaves us a bit helpless .. .could you elaborate on what exactly are the problems? Maybe somebody can help.

I also think that by taking away everything there is completely you just "punish" the users and probably not those you have the dispute with. Discussing it with other people and getting people to support your cause might be more successful.

michaell
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 2:31 pm

johann_p wrote:I agree with that. Just telling us that there are "issues" leaves us a bit helpless .. .could you elaborate on what exactly are the problems? Maybe somebody can help.

I'm not so sure - people might "help" by launching into attacks on the other side of the dispute, which will result in turning a private dispute between a few people into a massive flame war involving everyone.

Angelkeen

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 2:46 pm

If you do pull the plug, that would be a big loss. This is a great source of info. It was a big help when I started using Mozilla products. Also, is this because you have info about K-meleon?
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BenBasson
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 2:59 pm

The PluginDoc site is incredibly useful and I for one appreciate the work that's gone into it. Hendikins, regardless of whatever political issues are flying around, I urge you to think about the reason that site exists; to help Mozilla and Firefox users.

I'd also like to echo TheOneKEA in saying that it'd be better if this was discussed in the open, but if you're not at liberty to do that, it's understandable.

johann_p

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 3:40 pm

What I find odd about this is that the main plugindoc page says " I will not have work on PluginDoc taken over by somebody else if that happens. " but the staff page lists several contributors and gives credits to quite a few people. I think throwing away what is there and not letting somebody else continue to work on this is not only against the spirit of open source development but also offensive towards the people that seem to have contributed.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.”

michaell
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 4:19 pm

johann_p wrote:the staff page lists several contributors and gives credits to quite a few people. I think throwing away what is there and not letting somebody else continue to work on this is not only against the spirit of open source development but also offensive towards the people that seem to have contributed.

On the other hand, quite a few people there are also localisers, who have also been complaining about the actions (or inactions) of the Mozilla organisation. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly - it is the source that is open. The Mozilla Foundation isn't required to be open or democratic, neither are their websites, or logos, or names, etc...

Jack
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 4:40 pm

Yep. While the code itself is open source, the web sites, brand names, etc., are not. So you essentially have four options.

1) Shut up and live with it.

2) Try to work within the system and change it.

and if/when that fails -

3) Fork it.

or

4) Move on to something else.

Lost User 36785
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 7:19 pm

Is this deserving of a sticky?

On a lighter note, that's a much better-looking avatar, Jack!
Image

rfrangioni77

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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 7:32 pm

Hendikins, if you feel you need to terminate your involvement with Mozilla, just turn the PluginDoc site and its information over to someone else...don't nuke it altogether. Don't punish Firefox's users, who NEED that information.

I understand how irritating politics can be....<i>believe</i> me, I do. But nuking the PluginDoc altogether hurts Firefox's users more than anyone else, and I just don't see the point in that.

aebrahim
 
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Post Posted December 28th, 2004, 11:08 pm

Angelkeen wrote:is this because you have info about K-meleon?

No, it's not.

As far as I know, it's to do with the various other political issues that have been ongoing for some time. I believe that the most recent incident to do with Mozilla Update was just the last straw, as opposed to the root cause.

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