import mailboxes from Apple's Mail.app v. 2.0.x not possible

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vicjoe
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import mailboxes from Apple's Mail.app v. 2.0.x not possible

Post by vicjoe »

The instructions for importing Mail.app mailboxes from mail.app in OS X 10.4 are totally, totally wrong and useless. I'm guessing that the advice is based on pre 10.4 and Apple has changed things.
The FAQ entry (http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/faq#mail.app) says:
How do I import e-mail messages from mail.app (MacOS X)?
Go to ~/Library/Mail/ and root out the mbox files in the finder. These are actually OSX packages.
No they are not packages!! First of all, to get to the .mbox files, they are found in
/Users/<username>/Library/Mail/Mailboxes/

and here, packages are not found, rather folders like John_Doe.mbox within which in all cases is found another folder called Messages. Inside Messages is found the actual messages with numeric names like 642433.emlx and a Info.plist file at the same level. And, there are no Inbox entries in the Mailboxes folder. The INBOX.mbox is found in the folder called "POP-[name of user email account]. Again, the actual messages are in a Messages folder with numerically named messages and a .plist file.
Select Show Package Contents and a new window will open revealing several files including a file named mbox. Copy that file to the subfolder called Local Folders in the folder Mail in your profile folder (On Mac OS X, the path is usually ~/Library/Application Support/Thunderbird/Profiles/xxxxxxxx.default/) and rename it to something meaningful. This process needs to be done for each of your mailboxes. Finally start Thunderbird to see the new mail folders.

This is totally different from the Mail directory for Thunderbird, which is absolutely NOT in Application support, at least not on my machine. I found the Mail directory for Thunderbird at: /Users/<username>/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/2mc8t4zq.default/Mail/Local\ Folders/ (in the Finder of course the last expression is 'Local Folders' - the backslash represents a space in Unix parlance) - anyway, this is a totally different location than given in the instructions.
Okay, I find different info. in knowledge-base, http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder#Thunderbird, where it lists 3 possibilities:
~/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name>/
~/Library/Application Support/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name>/
Users/<user name>/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name>/

If one followed the FAQ first, he/she wouldn't have known this.

And, the files are altogether different. Whereas Apple files end with .emlx, Thunderbird is organized totally differently, e.g. a file called john_doe, then john_doe.msf, then a folder called john_doe.sbd, and this folder is empty! Same with theothers, e.g the inbox folder. Where are the real messages? What extension do they have? The file (e.g. john_doe) without any extender seems to have the biggest byte count. I guess they are all in there, as opposed to individually organized with a .plist as in Apple's Mail. With these differences, I can't see how it is possible to import the Apple files to Thunderbird.

I'm prepared to read up on how this program works, 'cause it has some features that I like that are hard to activate in Mail, like return receipts, and if it works, encryption and hopefully GNU Privacy Guard. First there must be a clearer set of instructions for importing mail.app messages in Tiger. The stuff I have read is sometimes either very sparse when it comes to Mac users, or one has to try to extrapolate from instructions for the Windows version. If I master this import trick, I'll certainly be willing to write up a Mac - Tiger specific how-to, but I need help myself to get there.

Last minute note: just before posting this I found a Sept. 27 2005 message that says
Mail.app recently changed thier mail format making it difficult. There is a program that can help but unfortunately, it costs $25. I'm trying to find an alternative free program. When they [Apple] make changes, it takes time for other programs to catch up.
I guess that is what I needed to know. Or has the situation changed? I don't know where the $25 program is, poster didn't say. I respectfully suggest the FAQ be updated to warn users of Tiger's version of Mail.app about this. I think Thunderbird is so powerful and sophisticated compared to Mail that I can only hope that a fix for Mac users, or if there is one, that it be identified. I apologize if any of the above sounded like a rant, more frustration around a glitch in what otherwise is probably the most important e-mail and news app ever devised. For Mac users reading this, ignore macosxhints info on the subject, it is old and now incorrect like the FAQ.Similarly, the kb page entitled "Importing and exporting your mail - MozillaZine Knowledge Base" is out-of-date and doesn't cover Tiger version of Mail.app. If someone knows differently, even where that commercial prg. is located, I'd sure like to know!
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

Looks like I found the solution, a program to convert emix to mbox format:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/u ... erter.html
And, thankfully, it is free. Haven't tried it yet, but thought I'd better post this ASAP before my prior post discourages anyone.
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
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Post by Guest »

Dear vicjoe,

Thanks for your info re Thumderbird E-mail. I downloaded the programme a long time ago, when I was usinhg Panther, but when I decided to go back to my Apple mail application I was unable to re import my e-mails as the fprmat was different.
Now that I am runnung OS X 10.4, I thought I would give Thunderbird another go but I would like to return to my apple mail application if necessary and be able to re import my e-mails.

I was glad to have come across your comments as I now realise that I need to find out if it would be possible to do so before I dare download Thunderbird.

Thanks,

Ieuan Rees
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Daifne
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Post by Daifne »

You are right, that Knowledge Base article was written before the change that Apple made. Would you like to add the new information to it? It would be really helpful. Don't delete the old, there are others out there that still need that method, but it does certainly need updating.
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

a rewrite would best be done as a reoganization, where the information on the changes to Apple's mailbox format starting with Tiger, and the solution, are seen first, then users with earlier OS versions could be taken to the pre-Tiger solution.

As to converting Thunderbird mailboxes into emlx format for Tiger's Mail.app, I'd imagine that someone would have to come up with the reverse of the Emlx to Mbox Converter. I'm wondering particularly how Apple managed to convert mailboxes for people upgrading to Tiger 10.4 from an earlier version of Mac OS X where the Mail.app stored messages in the mbox format and now needs to be converted to the newer emlx format? It has to be therefore that the software exists for doing such a conversion, albeit probably buried in the Tiger installation software.

Regarding the potential need to return to Mail, sure there are a few conveniences like correspondence with Apple's Address book, iPhoto and iCal programs, but when you look at Mail and Thunderbird, for serious cyber-communicators, Thunderbird has much greater depth (sometimes at the expense of ease of use, I admit). Alternately, there are facets of unix mail which have not been activated in Mail but which can be incorporated if one knows how to use the right commands in a shell, and example being handling receipts. Also, I am not aware of a way to use GNU Privacy Guard with Mail, whereas the implementation is just about there in Thunderbird. They are different animals; Mail is for consumers who see themselves as enjoying the "digital life" through lots of movies, photos and music; hence Mail has the ability to play a slide show from an e-mail message, or send one from a photo or presentation folder. Thunderbird is not as automated in this regard, but far more flexible in providing the core technologies evolved over the years for e-mail.

Joe
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
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Daifne
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Post by Daifne »

If you register with the Knowledge base, you can edit the pages. Sure, add it on at the beginning of the article. Just leave the rest.

I'm using OS X on a rebuilt G3 as one of my secondary machines. Haven't kept up with the OS since OS 8, since I didn't have a Mac again until I was given this one to restore. You are much more up on the current information than I am.
vicjoe
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Location: Victoria BC

Will be happy to post this to the KB

Post by vicjoe »

f you register with the Knowledge base, you can edit the pages. Sure, add it on at the beginning of the article. Just leave the rest.


Will do as soon as I've tested out the import app and documented the steps. Good to know I can insert it at the beginning. Thanks.

Joe
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
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Daifne
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Post by Daifne »

Hi Joe,

Great. That will help us out a lot. Welcome to the community ;-)

Those articles are completely editable.
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

I'm reporting back; so far in my tests, the freebie converts Apple .mbox folders containing .emlx files to a folder one can name, inside of which is another folder simply called mbox inside of which is a file simply called mbox. When Thunderbird is launched, the folder I named appears, triangle-clicking reveals the mbox folder within, but the mbox file does not show, and no messages are displayed in Thunderbird. I'm not surprised, as the files in the Mail/Local Folders do not end in mbox anyway, rather the file with the messages doesn't have an extender, just the name of the mailbox, e.g. inbox. So, I took the mbox file I'd converted out of the mbox folder and placed it in the list with the others (Thunderbird had generated a .msf file and .sbd folder), restarted, there was the mailbox as a folder, but clicking on it did not display any messages. I'm running out of ideas.
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

Further testing; discovered the problem. The little program will let one drag an Apple .mbox folder onto it and puts up a misleading message that it is converting. It is not, the resulting mbox file as located in my previous note, has zero bytes. one must open the Apple Mail folder and individually drag the .emlx files into the convert window, run the conversion naming the result as desired (e.g. old sent) then in the location saved to, rename the generic mbox file to match the folder, e.g. 'old sent to use my example, take it out of the mbox folder and put on the same level with the .msf file/.sbd folder. Then upon reboot, it shows up in Thunderbird and the messages display fine. I'll write this up with greater clarity for the kb once I'm done converting.
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Post by Daifne »

Great work. I can't wait to see the final result.
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

Holy moly,

I spent the time writing up the procedure, but looking at the kb document formatting requirements, I'm just too burnt out to format it properly, and in any case not sure if I had too many personal observations to make it a "wiki" style entry. So, I'll post my work here and ask that someone who has the formatting and style skill massage it for proper insertion. I suggest a title like "How to import Apple's Mail program 2.x and higher [Tiger release] messages into Thunderbird" -- Here it is:

____ start article _____

How to convert Apple's Mail.app v. 2.x mailboxes to standard Unix mbox format and import the results into Thunderbird (or other mail applications that use the standard mbox format).

Introduction: as of the release of Tiger, Apple's Mail application changed the way it stores e-mail messages, from one continuous file per mailbox (.mbox) to individual files for each message with a .emlx extension (and these are organized according to their header names [subject, etc.] via a .plist file). Apple did this so the Spotlight metadata application could index the contents, and it is also a good idea to avoid loss of messages in case of file corruption. However, the older .mbox format continues to be a standard in sophisticated mail applications such as Thunderbird. Therefore since Tiger, it is no longer a simple matter to import mail messages from Mail.app to another Unix-style program.

How to make the conversion from Mail.app messages to Thunderbird compatible messages:
(1) download the free program emlx to mbox converter from:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/u ... erter.html
If the program helps you to make a substantial conversion, consider sending the author a PayPal donation.

(2) locate the folder containing your Mail.app messages, which will likely be in two closely related places; go to /Users/<username>/Library/Mail/Mailboxes/ and from there, any custom mailboxes you made (my example from here on will be "Mom") will be in folders in "Mailboxes"; your inbox and sent messages will be found at the same level as Mailboxes, with a name something like "POP-<yourusername@yourISP> and if you use IMAP, on the same level you will see a folder named Mac-<yourusername> that will contain your downloaded IMAP inbox messages.

(3) Now locate your Thunderbird mail messages folder. It can be found at one of the three following locations:
~/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name>/
~/Library/Application Support/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name e.g. xxxxxxxx.default) >/
Users/<user name>/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/<Profile name e.g. xxxxxxxx.default)>/ ... and then to Mail/Local Folders
hint: if deciphering the above for your own machine is too much of a hassle, just do a search for a folder called Profiles. With Spotlight you will doubtless get more than one under the category Folders, but a "get info" on them will show you the path of the one in the Thunderbird directory.

(4) open your Mailboxes folder, launch the emlx to mbox converter application, go to any mail message folders you have created, drill down until you get to the Messages folder, inside of which you will find the individual messages with names like 642433.emlx. Highlight these, drag and drop them into the emlx to mbox converter window, click convert and when the Save dialog box appears, make a new folder someplace easy to remember, like the Desktop, make a new folder and name it something you can remember like "converted mailboxes" change emlx to mbox converter's default "Messages" to a name reflecting the mailbox you're converting, like "Mom" or "old inbox" or whatever and hit return to do the conversion. I do not recommend that you convert directly into Thunderbird's mailbox folder, as there is a bit of work to be done before the converted files can be used by Thunderbird, and if you don't get it right the 1st time, you won't have to do the conversions all over again.

(5) So, copy (not simply drag, hold down the option key) your converted .mbox folders to the Thunderbird Local Folders folder. At this point you must launch Thunderbird, you will see your new imported messages as local folders that won't show you any messages. Don't panic; you had to do this to force Thunderbird to make a couple of files it needs for each mailbox. Quit the program, open up Thunderbird's Local Folders directory and do the following: for every instance of a folder that ends in .mbox, like "mom.mbox" open up the folder, you will find a file named simply "mbox" which you will rename to "mom" (or whatever the name of your mailbox is) being sure not to have any kind of extender, simply "mom" or whatever. Drag the renamed file out of the folder into the same level of the hierarchy as the folder and toss the now empty "mom.mbox" folder (make sure it is empty first).

(6) Re-launch Thunderbird and all your imported mailboxes should show up, and when clicked on, display their messages. The one annoyance is that all messages will show as unread, but you can highlight them (Cmd-A), control or right click and mark them as read.

Is this too much hassle? Well, yes and no. Once you've gotten on a roll with the process, you can facilitate the import of thousands of files in a relatively short time, and at the end of a one-time effort have all your correspondence in a program that is truly powerful and sophisticated in ways that Apple left out because of their (often admirable) philosophy of keeping things simple. In Thunderbird you will be able to manage things like asking and acknowledging receipts, adding features like encryption with GNU Privacy Guard, multiple independent windows, etc. Thunderbird isn't instant gratification, but it is the mail program for grown-ups IMHO, and using it supports the non-proprietary public licensing of free software movement. It is the future, now.

One last thing; once you've done the conversions and have Thunderbird as you'd like it, to make it your default mail program, you need to run Apple's Mail.app, then choose Mail > Preferences (Command, <comma>). Click the General icon, and then choose Default Email Reader and navigate to Thunderbird to choose it. Now when you click on a "mailto" link in a browser, Thunderbird will launch instead of Mail.app.

___ end article ____
Mac OS X 10.4.10 Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 Firefox 2.0.0.4 on a 733 mhz Digital Audio Mac w/ 1 gig RAM
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Daifne
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Post by Daifne »

Well, you could just enter in a link to this topic, rather than the entire writeup...
vicjoe
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Post by vicjoe »

Daifne wrote:Well, you could just enter in a link to this topic, rather than the entire writeup...
I'm not sure what you mean. A link to where? I tried to express that I did not post it to the kb, given my newbie status in preparing such articles; I was hoping that someone with more experience would be willing to edit it for proper format and content and post it to the kb. At the moment, this is the only place the write-up exists, except on my local hard drive. If I have committed a faux pas, please explain.

Thanks,

Joe
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Post by wintogreen »

vicjoe: I haven't read this thread carefully (just followed the link here from the knowledge base), but if you paste your instructions into the relevent kb article, I or someone else will tidy it up for you. No need to worry about the formatting and all that.
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