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FF2.0b2 - file opening dialog was changed? Or else, WTF?

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zaw
 
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Post Posted October 12th, 2006, 5:04 pm

I know they want to have safe and all but for the expert users who use Firefox most already know what is dangerous and what not!

There should with Open with for every file extension. even EXE and .JS and file named Virus.exe.scr .


I choose Firefox because it gave me more control of how I use the web and 2.0 just pissed me off!

last night I wanted to open some *.doc files from ftp site and I have to pointlessly save them before I could look at them. then I have to go delete them manually.

There should be setting for like Default User mode and Advanced Usermode which leave everything open. and Superadvance User Mode as well.

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 12:36 am

I partly agree with zaw in that there should be some sort of preference which makes it possible to disable the new safe download dialog. The option should be there somewhere - especially if it's known to cause issues that cannot be dealt with entirely at the client's side, and as kfleong has pointed out, you can do this manually by editing a few words in a single component - so it wouldn't really be a hassl to add such on option.

BUT I disagree with everyone who thinks that this is some horrible crippling of Firefox and should therefore be removed. That's like saying child-safe locks in cars should be removed becauyse most people know not to open car doors at the wrong time. It's true, but it's incorrect reasoning. I think it's a great idea.. it just needs to be refined and shouldn't be FORCED on ALL people. My reasoning is

1. As far as I am aware, the single biggest reason why Firefox got such a HUGE following was because of the security it offered against malicious codes/applications, etc. I think this new dialog enhances that aspect of the browser.
2. It may be so that many of those who use firefox is "aware" enough... But Firefox was NOT intended just for techies... Good technology does not necessarly mean more options and features everywhere. Moderation, in may cases, makes the use of the technology MUCH easier and stress-free. After all, back in the age of bloated browsers, wasn't the concept of moderation the very thing that gave birth to Firefox?

Also a point about the new interface - I can see why they said "Open", but I do agree that it should be changed, since that's not the way the word is normally used in real life situation. But the buttons are a welcome change.

I ALWAYS hated the "Yes" "No" approach to dialog buttons. Those buttons don't tell you anything about the choice you are making, and mandates the reading of dialog boxes - which I think is unnecessary and at times ambigious. You would be amazed at what you can miss when you are trying to do something in a hurry. Also, it makes localization a little more difficult, becuase believe it or not, Yes and No are used differently in different situation in different parts of the world.

Users should not have to decide what "Yes" or "No" really means in any given situation. Good interface should be absolutely clear at whenever possible, and it just simply doesn't happen with the Yes, no approach.

With the buttons telling you exactly what will happen, that ambiguity is gone, and users are left with clean, direct interface. Just because you are not used to it doesn't mean that it's bad.

Thumper

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 1:14 am

After all, back in the age of bloated browsers, wasn't the concept of moderation the very thing that gave birth to Firefox?


No, the concept of not providing stupid preferences for the sake of "choice" was the very thing that gave birth to Firefox. There are extensions which override this for that vocal minority of users who can't live with this feature, but they _are_ a minority.

- Chris

Scarlettrunner20

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 2:17 am

I thought it was tabbed browsing that gave birth to Fx. I mean that is why everyone got Fx was for tabbed browsing not because it was safer than IE or for any other reason. Tabbed browsing is what has sold Fx and with that goes TBE...without TBE not much to Fx.

malliz
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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 2:26 am

Scarlettrunner20 wrote:I thought it was tabbed browsing that gave birth to Fx. I mean that is why everyone got Fx was for tabbed browsing not because it was safer than IE or for any other reason. Tabbed browsing is what has sold Fx and with that goes TBE...without TBE not much to Fx.

Then you know nothing about the origins of firefox. But then you are a tbe fanboy.
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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 3:08 am

Thumper wrote:
After all, back in the age of bloated browsers, wasn't the concept of moderation the very thing that gave birth to Firefox?


No, the concept of not providing stupid preferences for the sake of "choice" was the very thing that gave birth to Firefox.


...? I thought that's what I said.... What am I saying wrong here?

Anyway... Browsers loaded with features and gadgets just went as far as it could go before firefox the lean mean browsing machine came into play. You see this trend everywhere. Maybe the more appearent one is Apple's sucess with its iPod and iTunes. They didn't get their HUGE following for thousands of options and features... they got it by hacking away at unnecessary stuff and providing people with onyl the what they really need - elegantly, without the clutter.

Swiss army knife is cool, and there are few McGyvers out there who can actually do cool stuff with it, but for the rest of us, it's just a neat, but cluttersome piece of metal. I think there's a lesson to be learned in that.

We have to realize that the ultimate goal of any feature in any product is to reduce and simplify human workload. You have to look at this objectively... If something's prone to create more work - or if that something can be simplified further, then the change is for the good.

Scarlettrunner20

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 3:20 am

Nothing has changed except the childish wording which at least is better than in 2.0beta2. One has never been able to "open" a .exe file directly when using Fx (unlike IE as it used to be). You can still directly open other types of files so I don't see why people are so upset except for the silly wording.

BenBasson
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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 5:28 am

Scarlettrunner20 wrote:You can still directly open other types of files so I don't see why people are so upset except for the silly wording.

I think the gist of it is that there are cases where it doesn't work for other types of files. That's not really desired behaviour, so if it's fixable, it should be fixed.

RenegadeX

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 8:19 am

malliz wrote:
Scarlettrunner20 wrote:I thought it was tabbed browsing that gave birth to Fx. I mean that is why everyone got Fx was for tabbed browsing not because it was safer than IE or for any other reason. Tabbed browsing is what has sold Fx and with that goes TBE...without TBE not much to Fx.

Then you know nothing about the origins of firefox. But then you are a tbe fanboy.
malliz, while Scarlettrunn20 was wrong, your response style makes you come across like an Australian version of Thumper. And that's not something to aspire to.

Scarlettrunner20's first statement is not true, but the 2nd & 3rd ones probably are (though I would change the word "everyone" to "most" or "many people"). It's been my observation over the last 2 years that most people who first downloaded Firefox did so because they were curious (or had been told) about tabbed browsing. Extensions & security are a bonus.

Thumper

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 9:47 am

t's been my observation over the last 2 years that most people who first downloaded Firefox did so because they were curious (or had been told) about tabbed browsing. Extensions & security are a bonus.


It's been my experience over the last six years that most people who download Mozilla do so because of the security, and blocking of popups and ads. But regardless, scarlettrunner totally misunderstood what I wrote, so it doesn't matter.

- Chris

RenegadeX

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 10:02 am

^ It's also been my experience that men don't wear skirts (unless they're cross-dressers or transvestites).
Where you live, that may be different! :wink:

the-edmeister

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Post Posted October 13th, 2006, 7:42 pm

kfleong wrote:I like the old behavior. Leaving the choice to *ME*, not FF. This is more so since most of the sites are sending wrong MIME types, i.e. .PDF as application/octet-stream.

To revert to the old behavior, look for the file nsHelperAppDlg.js in "c:\program files\bon echo\components" for nightly builds, or "c:\program files\mozilla firefox\components" for 2.0b2.

Use an editor or Notepad to edit the file. Search for:
Code: Select all
hide feature

You will see the code as per below:
Code: Select all
...
if (shouldntRememberChoice && noDefaultApp) {
        // hide featured choice
        this.mDialog.document.getElementById("normalBox").collapsed = true;
        // show basic choice
...


Change the true to false & save the file. Re-start ff / bon echo.

HTH.

Has anyone tried this mod?

Edit: Changing that to false does restore the "old behavior", so many thanks to kfleong for coming up with that fix.

I am doing nightly updates so I will need to find a more permanent fix than editing that nsHelperAppDlg.js file which has a date of 10/12/06 (2006101303 browser date), so it looks an entry in user.js or userChrome.js will be needed to keep that fix in place.


Ed
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Vectorspace
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Post Posted October 14th, 2006, 5:10 am

RenegadeX wrote:^ It's also been my experience that men don't wear skirts (unless they're cross-dressers or transvestites).
Where you live, that may be different! :wink:
Consider yourself warned, RenegadeX. Do anything like that again and it's a week ban.
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RenegadeX

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Post Posted October 14th, 2006, 12:30 pm

^ What's wrong with that?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kilt
Kilts are worn in Scotland, but not where I live.
All I was doing was pointing out that people around the world experience things differently. Go ahead, ban me now if you have an issue with it.

Daifne
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Post Posted October 14th, 2006, 2:08 pm

RenegadeX,

The comment was culturally insensitive and rude. I highly suspect that you were aware of that and posted the way you did intentionally just to get a rise out of Thumper. That is what is not tolerated. There are many other ways you could have pointed out that "people around the world experience things differently" without being provoking. You need to temper your comments.

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